What to Charge??

[Doctor]

Ok, so im not sure if this is the right spot, but ill give it a go anyway,

Back when the Fringe was on in Adelaide I was out at a small bar having a few beers with a mate, with my camera in my bag. There were a few models walking around with "body art" painted onto themselves in lingerie and once they had all finished up i enquired as to taking some photos. The girls obliged and i got a few nice shots of the girls having a good time in next to no clothing. As i was putting my camera back into my bag, a person approached me about buying the photographs that i had taken, being that i was just out having a few coldies with a mate, i had shot in full auto mode, expecting to get nothing from the shots having never shot indoors, at night, and portraits ever before, just for a bit of fun really.

I recently recieved an email from the gentleman that wants the shots as to if i had done my PP on them and when he could see them, so here is my problem, What do i charge him for them? There would probably be between 10-15 shots that are useable, well, that im happy to put my name to, and i cant for the life of me work out what this set of shots would be worth? Especially given that they are in jpeg and not a RAW format......

Cheers

Chris

[Geoff]

Chris,
Interesting scenario.
Did the guy wanting to buy them say what he wanted them for? (i.e what size he wanted to print them to etc etc).
I'd be a little careful as you don't have any form of model release from either of the girls posing for you and whilst they thought it was just a few fun shots, if this guy who wants to purchase them publishes them somewhere it could potentially land you in strife.
I would a) see what he wants to do with the photos and b)contact the girls (if possible)and get a model release from them, perhaps you would need to pass on some of the profits if you do end up selling the prints to this guy.

I would tread very carefully as I believe this has potential to get messy. That said, sounds like it was a fun night

[Glen]

I would 100% back Geoff's thoughts on the model release. This could cause way more trouble than the few bucks you will get.

[gstark]

Chris,

I would echo Geoff's and Glen's observations 110%.

Who is this person who wants to buy these photos? What are his motives? What is his connection, if any, with the venue and/or the models?

This is potentially a very deep hole that you may be digging. Yes, it may be potentially quite innocuous, but how do you know? Satisfy yourself in that regard first of all, but prima facie there's definitely a case for CYA here, and I think that the protection of the models and yourself needs to be your first priority.

[Raskill]

If the shots were taken in a public place, then is a model release needed? Hasnt the Australian High Court determined that if you are in a public place, then you have NO right to privacy? Even if it is an ad hoc posed shot as they walked by. If you can reasonably identify the women then speak with them, if not, then record the efforts you made and go right ahead.

[Doctor]

Thanks guy's.

The thought of what he wants them for has crossed my mind, as has the permission of the girls and the artist, i have email addresses for both the girls and the artist himself so i will certainly be contacting them regarding the matter. I will also be giving, probably, the girls a copy of the photos, all of them, un edited, for their own collection, as well as the artist. From what i can gather, the person after the shots has no affiliation with the bar, or the girls, or the artist, in fact, he works at the uni i attend in the library, (i always thought that librarians were creepy, this kinda confirms it), so i cannot think of a logical reason for him wanting the set of photos. But im not going to turn down the situation if there is a possibility that i can make some money toward improving my kit......

Will keep you guys posted on the situation

Cheers again,

Chris

Edit: In reference to Raskill, i hadn't thought about that..... any more on this subject guys?

[JordanP]

Public place or not - if the image is to be used commercially then the model release is required. Model release is not about privacy it is about commercial use of the individuals (recognizable) image.

[gstark]

If the shots were taken in a public place, then is a model release needed?

Chris has already stated that these were made "in a small bar", or at least that's the inference that he's made. Whilst a bar may appear to be open to the public, like a shopping centre, it will probably not actually be a public space, per se.

I'm not exactly sure how that actually affects this ....

[gstark]

Public place or not - if the image is to be used commercially then the model release is required. Model release is not about privacy it is about commercial use of the individuals (recognizable) image.

Might there also be any issues regarding the copyright in the artist's work embodied in what he or she has painted in the models' bodies?

Regardless, you have the contact details for each of the three parties involved. If they are happy to provide you with releases, then there should be no issues.

I would certainly be giving them each a set of their images - as you have indicated - and asking them for the release. That is by far the easiest and cleanest way to handle this, and then you can move on to deciding what you want to sell, and for what consideration.

[Raskill]

Public place or not - if the image is to be used commercially then the model release is required. Model release is not about privacy it is about commercial use of the individuals (recognizable) image.

I dont know if that is 100% correct, it's certainly best practice, but cant be correct. Imagine a Steve Parish image of Bondi beach for example. The people in that image are recognisable, but getting model releases from them is impossible. The image will certainly be used for commercial purposes, but that doesnt mean the people in the image are entitled to anything.

[Glen]

Alan, I think that is slightly different. The individuals are not the focus. One example could be a local cop, who is the well known local footy star, getting snapped walking past or out of the local brothel. The brothel then runs that photo in an add in the local paper with the caption, "Everybody is visiting us" underneath. My understanding is that a release would be required (and probably unlikely to be forthcoming!). If the local uni librarian was putting together an ad to promote the uni's involvement in the Fringe Festival, then said "come here and meet people like these 2 who attended last year", I am guessing a release would be required. As Chris has access to the models he can solve this all pretty easily