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by **dviv** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:08 pm

It's here! http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091 ... markII.asp

Pretty impressive specs too:

New 21.1 Megapixel CMOS sensor with improved EOS Integrated Cleaning System (E.I.C.S.)
New Full HD 1080 resolution movie recording
3.9 frames per second continuous shooting
High performance DIGIC 4 providing superb image quality
Maximum 310 large JPEG images in a single burst with a UDMA card
3.0” VGA (920k dots) Clear View LCD
ISO 100-6400 (expansion from 50 up to 25,600)
9 AF points + 6 Assist AF points

by **Bindii** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:24 pm

I think I just came... :wink:

No price though.. I wanna know the price...

by **gstark** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:38 pm

Bindii wrote:No price though.. I wanna know the price...

US$2700.

Expect a street price here of around 3200, I guess

by **Dprime** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:39 pm

"the world's first 'compact' full frame digital SLR"

Correct me if I'm wrong but the D700 would put that claim to shame wouldn't it?

by **gstark** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:41 pm

Now, who amongst us was saying that the Sony A900's PP3500 price was reasonable?

This will certainly put some spice into the market, and the question is, will Nikon add video to the D700?

by **gstark** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:42 pm

Dprime wrote:"the world's first 'compact' full frame digital SLR"

Correct me if I'm wrong but the D700 would put that claim to shame wouldn't it?

I don't think so: the 5D's been around for several years.

If you look more closely at how that reference is applied, you will see that it does, in fact, refer to exactly that camera: the current (series I) 5D.

Cheers.

by **Dprime** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:47 pm

Woops, forgot the original 5D was full frame. my Sony :oops:

by **PiroStitch** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:50 pm

It's actually not that impressive.

Great

Higher ISO

Digic IV

Higher MP (if you feel so inclined)

Video (if you feel so inclined)
Bad

Only 3.9 fps

Still only 9 AF points!!!!
The body still looks the same. Yeah this is no PJ camera however even for a wedding if you want to capture candids, 3 (sorry 3.9!!!!) fps is still somewhat slow.

by **Alpha_7** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:51 pm

I guess it depends on your definition of compact.

Looks like a good bit of kit.

by **sirhc55** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:09 pm

12 minutes of FULL HD opposed to the D90’s 5 minutes of 720p. Apparently the D90’s sensor overheats around the five minute mark - what have Canon done to make such a substantial leap forward?

List price of the D700 body $2,999US and the 5DMkII $2,699, methinks we may see a price war :up:

by **chrisk** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:10 pm

looks great so far imo.

movie mode: check
FINALLY a decent LCD: check
AF micro adjustment: check
LV: check
Price: DOUBLE CHECK !!! freakin AWESOME ! :shock:

the AF system is probably the main weakness here. to a lesser degree the fps is average too, but this is not supposed to be a speed machine.

i hope canon do a much better job in controlling noise than the a900 does given the pixel count. i'm more interested in the dynamic range than all that other stuff. i'd gladly look at the 5dMkII if it gives me s5 style range.

one things for sure, it makes the d700 and a900 look pretty significantly overpriced. i'm glad i waited b4 investing in the d700 cos the price should come down significantly now. the d700 will need to come down by around $500 you would think i suppose. i was hoping that the d700 would be under $3kAUD by xmas and i think i'll get my wish.

by **chrisk** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:14 pm

and perhaps even more significantly...a new 24mm f1.4 L USM prime.
WAKE UP NIKON you dumbasses !

by **StarForge** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:16 pm

I really like how with each release of a new camera model the bar is raised and we're not only left with increased buyers remorse (for those of us who couldn't wait), but increased expectations for the next thing a competing company will bring to the table.

1080p HD recording... niiice

by **DaveB** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:20 pm

I was hoping for 5 fps, but 4 (ok, 3.9) will have to do.
I was expecting a significantly upgraded AF system (e.g. with some points spread out more) but oh well...

I'm not majorly fussed about those though, as that's what the 40D/50D's for.

Everything else about it looks great (including the way the UI is so similar to the 50D: I keep getting annoyed with the 5D due to little things such as the way the dials are reversed when selecting ISO from the way the 40D/50D works).

Now to work out what it's going to cost me to replace my 40D with a 50D/5DmkII pair before Christmas (and how soon RRS will have an L-plate for the 5DmkII). And how much more storage I'm going to need!... Sigh, I knew it was coming: at least I've got a few months to sort it out.

by **mickeyjuice** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:54 pm

Rooz wrote:to a lesser degree the fps is average too, but this is not supposed to be a speed machine.

Exactly right. Looks sweet to me. Work nicely with the 40D...

by **jdear** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:56 pm

I think I just came...

what you too??

by **sirhc55** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:57 pm

Just got an email from Stu at QC - he believes the rrp will be $3,999

by **gstark** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:35 pm

sirhc55 wrote:Just got an email from Stu at QC - he believes the rrp will be $3,999

Not a bad price, per se, but also not in line with what it should be. Even for RRP.

Street should hopefully be significantly lower.

by **ozonejunkie** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:35 pm

It might finally be time to add to the 30D! Pretty nice price to start at as well!

I have been waiting for this announcement for a week now, I think it is time to start frothing at the mouth!

Tristan

by **gooseberry** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:43 pm

sirhc55 wrote:12 minutes of FULL HD opposed to the D90’s 5 minutes of 720p. Apparently the D90’s sensor overheats around the five minute mark - what have Canon done to make such a substantial leap forward?

Apparently it is not a heat issue. Simon Joinson (the reviewer on dpreview) had this to say re: the 5 minute limit.
"We asked this question and were told it's a tax issue, nothing else. The fact you can take 5 mins, pause a second then do another 5 mins ad infinitum seems to support this."

The EU in 2006/2007 introduced a new law saying that digital cameras that can record video above a certain resolution and for a certain time period will be classified as video cameras and thus subject to higher tax.

by **sirhc55** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:55 pm

gooseberry wrote:
sirhc55 wrote:12 minutes of FULL HD opposed to the D90’s 5 minutes of 720p. Apparently the D90’s sensor overheats around the five minute mark - what have Canon done to make such a substantial leap forward?

Apparently it is not a heat issue. Simon Joinson (the reviewer on dpreview) had this to say re: the 5 minute limit.
"We asked this question and were told it's a tax issue, nothing else. The fact you can take 5 mins, pause a second then do another 5 mins ad infinitum seems to support this."

The EU in 2006/2007 introduced a new law saying that digital cameras that can record video above a certain resolution and for a certain time period will be classified as video cameras and thus subject to higher tax.

Not doubting you goosegogs (an English expression

) but if this is true why can the Canon go for 12 minutes at 1080? One has to assume that Canon doesn’t give a flying feck for the EU :wink:

by **gstark** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:59 pm

gooseberry wrote:The EU in 2006/2007 introduced a new law saying that digital cameras that can record video above a certain resolution and for a certain time period will be classified as video cameras and thus subject to higher tax.

Fascinating. When I worked for Gallo in California back in the 90s, they did a similar thing for their wine cooler products: different states (of the USA) applied their taxes on alcohol based upon what the beverage's alcohol base was, so in some states the alcohol may have been grape juice based, in another it might have been pear juice, an third might have been apple juice based, and a fourth wheat based. All marketed as the same product!

So, for how much longer will the five minute rule remain? How soon before it becomes a two minute rule?

by **gstark** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:00 pm

sirhc55 wrote:Not doubting you goosegogs (an English expression ) but if this is true why can the Canon go for 12 minutes at 1080? One has to assume that Canon doesn’t give a flying feck for the EU

Either that, or they think they may have a loophole, or they haven't done their homework.

My vote would be the loophole.

by **gstark** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:02 pm

gstark wrote:
sirhc55 wrote:Not doubting you goosegogs (an English expression ) but if this is true why can the Canon go for 12 minutes at 1080? One has to assume that Canon doesn’t give a flying feck for the EU

Either that, or they think they may have a loophole, or they haven't done their homework.

My vote would be the loophole.

The other side of that coin might be to investigate whether the D90 could be hacked to record for longer than five minutes .... along similar lines to how the 300D was hacked to provide 10D features, way back when ....

by **chrisk** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:07 pm

this has AF in movie mode. i wonder how they got around that ? i'm assuming then that LV AF will be just as fast which is a big bonus.
either that or the AF is hell slow.

by **sirhc55** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:26 pm

gstark wrote:
sirhc55 wrote:Not doubting you goosegogs (an English expression ) but if this is true why can the Canon go for 12 minutes at 1080? One has to assume that Canon doesn’t give a flying feck for the EU

Either that, or they think they may have a loophole, or they haven't done their homework.

My vote would be the loophole.

Canon probably has more money in its “payoff” account than Nikon :roll:

by **ATJ** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:38 pm

gstark wrote:
gstark wrote:
sirhc55 wrote:Not doubting you goosegogs (an English expression ) but if this is true why can the Canon go for 12 minutes at 1080? One has to assume that Canon doesn’t give a flying feck for the EU

Either that, or they think they may have a loophole, or they haven't done their homework.

My vote would be the loophole.

The other side of that coin might be to investigate whether the D90 could be hacked to record for longer than five minutes .... along similar lines to how the 300D was hacked to provide 10D features, way back when ....

Or the single region ability on DVD players...

by **ozimax** on Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:43 pm

ATJ wrote:Or the single region ability on DVD players...

Getting off track, does anyone know of a hack to get a Macbook (10.4.11) to run multi region DVDs? I have changed mine 4 times and only have 1 left.

Getting back on track, I think the 5D II will be a sensational piece of kit. Adorama has brand new 30Ds for $699 USD at the moment too if anyone is interested.

by **moz** on Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:57 pm

ozimax wrote:Adorama has brand new 30Ds for $699 USD at the moment too if anyone is interested.

In the sense of hearing the gurgling sound as my soon-to-be-sold 30D drops even further in value, yes.

by **20D** on Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:58 pm

Stunning hands-on preview
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos5dmarkii/
Body US$2699, Kit with 24-105 US$3499 ---- attractive pricing

Apart from upgrading my 20D to 5DMkII, I need to upgrade my computer/HD to handle 21MP images :roll:

by **moz** on Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:03 pm

Rooz wrote:one things for sure, it makes the d700 and a900 look pretty significantly overpriced. i'm glad i waited b4 investing in the d700

Dude, you don't "invest" in digital cameras, you buy them as operating expenses (or a hobby). They don't appreciate and the only return you get is over the first 3-5 years when they're still current enough to sell photos off them easily.

But it is refreshing to hear Nikon users saying that the 5DII is ok, some of the forums are full of Canon whineboys talking about tossing their toys to switch to the far superior Nikon system that outclasses Canon in every possible respect... Canon left out essentials like cup-holders and a beer fridge.

by **mickeyjuice** on Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:10 pm

moz wrote:Dude, you don't "invest" in digital cameras, you buy them as operating expenses (or a hobby).

Ain't that the truth.

The people who amaze me in relation to this new camera are the ones who are whining about all the 1-series stuff it doesn't have. Well, there's a surprise...

by **BullcreekBob** on Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:08 am

What I'm wonderin' is how many more wedding seasons before the B&G REQUIRE their wedding 'tog to produce a combination of video and stills. Record the ceremony as hdtv and the *creative* shots as stills?

I'd like to consider the video as a bit of a toy but I suspect that aint the way the market is gunna view it.

by **Grev** on Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:41 am

This looks very very good, glad I have a few Canon stuff.

by **jdear** on Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:58 am

What I'm wonderin' is how many more wedding seasons before the B&G REQUIRE their wedding 'tog to produce a combination of video and stills.

I hope this never happens. They are 2 completely different mediums. With advancement in video technology such as RED etc, pulling high resolution stills from video footage will soon be possible... wedding tog's will have to really differentiate themselves if they want to survive I feel.

I'd like to consider the video as a bit of a toy but I suspect that aint the way the market is gunna view it.

I dunno... shooting with 1.2 lenses / tilt-shift lenses will be pretty fun on 1080 HD!

Getting off track, does anyone know of a hack to get a Macbook (10.4.11) to run multi region DVDs? I have changed mine 4 times and only have 1 left.

You need to find out what drive your system has (apple icon > About This Mac > More Info... > Disc Burning) and search for the RPC1 (or is it RPC2? I never remember) firmware hack for it. When I got my black macbook - about 2 months ago there wasnt a patch available yet. Ive since ditched it as a notebook so I never looked again.

mine looks like this: HL-DT-ST DVDRW GSA-s10N (firmware revision BP10)
Id only flash the firmware if there was a tested, stable release for that particular firmware revision... Flashing the wrong firmware isn't fun.

now back on topic...

Ill take one!

by **dviv** on Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:09 am

moz wrote:But it is refreshing to hear Nikon users saying that the 5DII is ok, some of the forums are full of Canon whineboys talking about tossing their toys to switch to the far superior Nikon system that outclasses Canon in every possible respect... Canon left out essentials like cup-holders and a beer fridge.

I know what you mean. It's not that hard…..

If you're a Pro studio shooter - buy a 1DsIII
If you're a Pro sports shooter - buy a 1DIII
If you are a wedding shooter (ie studio camera but lighter) - buy a 5D/5DII

The cameras below that are aimed at enthusiasts/semi pros or pros with special requirements.
I think the enthusiats need to wake up and realise that they aren't going to get full weather sealing, pro AF, high FPS and everything else all in a $2500 camera.

If they really were serious pro's they'd be buying pro cameras.

by **DaveB** on Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:40 am

Australian RRP seems to be AU$3999.

If you start with the quoted US price, add in shipping, convert to PP, and add in GST, it's only a slight markup. I wish it was less, but if you want one early you're probably going to have to pay RRP...

by **Bugeyes** on Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:22 am

A couple of high iso test images...

ISO 3200 35L shot wide open @ f1.4
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erikfive/2 ... 5/sizes/o/

ISO 6400 35L shot wide open @ f1.4
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erikfive/2 ... 3/sizes/o/

ISO 12800 35L shot wide open @ f1.4
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erikfive/2 ... 1/sizes/o/

by **ozonejunkie** on Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:37 pm

Oh man.... I have been waiting to see those (High ISO shots) and I like what I see!

Now, to wait for the exchange rate to change in my favour again!

Tristan

by **ja_S_on** on Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:42 pm

very, very nice! if it wasn't for the price I'd buy 2

makes me kinda sad to think that my relatively new 40D has been trumped by the 50D and now they are also updating the 5D

by **mickeyjuice** on Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:58 pm

ja_S_on wrote:makes me kinda sad to think that my relatively new 40D has been trumped by the 50D

Don't worry, it still takes images that are just as good as before the 50D was announced.

and now they are also updating the 5D

It's been three years, they're hardly rushing.

by **chrisk** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:56 pm

moz wrote:
Rooz wrote:one things for sure, it makes the d700 and a900 look pretty significantly overpriced. i'm glad i waited b4 investing in the d700

Dude, you don't "invest" in digital cameras, you buy them as operating expenses (or a hobby). They don't appreciate and the only return you get is over the first 3-5 years when they're still current enough to sell photos off them easily.

But it is refreshing to hear Nikon users saying that the 5DII is ok, some of the forums are full of Canon whineboys talking about tossing their toys to switch to the far superior Nikon system that outclasses Canon in every possible respect... Canon left out essentials like cup-holders and a beer fridge.

hey...listen buddy...its an INVESTMENT. thats my story and i'm sticking to it. :lol:

there are certiainly some things missing from the MkII which imo should have been included but ffs...its $2700 USD. what more do you freakin want at that price ?!?!?!? it must be the most outstanding value for money dslr on the market bar none. the high iso looks very promising too for a high res camera, although the above test images are not really very good to go by, 6400, f1.4 @ 1/500s or something. not exactly low light. if they can match the d700 for high iso at almost double the resolution its a massive step for canon...HUGE.

as for the whiners, i know what you mean but they are always around. tech-heads that have no clue about anything but stats, (dpreview). the 5dMkII is a landscape/ wedding/ studio machine. it is specced to do that perfectly. if people want something different, buy another camera. pretty simple. want frame rate and blistering AF ? hey, buy a d700 or a 1DMkIII and quit your whinging. for some there is no substiture to more resolution apart from well...more resolution. looks to me to be a home run for its intended market.

by **wider** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:25 pm

good to see that each maker isnt necessarily following each other, meaning they are grabbing a different part of the market each due to the distinguishing features between the A900, 5DII and D700

the a900 @ 24mp with a good frame rate. dont know how people are going to smile at the camera when it looks so damn ugly though. the 5DII with full HD video, decent res sensor, awesome lens range on canon's side. D700 has the extremely low noise sensor, high frame rate shooting and best focus points

im happy to see that canon nor sony nor nikon are trying to squeeze all features into each camera, is more reassuring on the build quality side of things.

by **mickeyjuice** on Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:55 am

An interesting take, more on the video side of it. It's killer, apparently. (includes screengrabs)

http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008/09/ ... -industry/

by **devilla101** on Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:23 am

mickeyjuice wrote:An interesting take, more on the video side of it. It's killer, apparently. (includes screengrabs)

http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008/09/ ... -industry/

Man those are just sweet. Although to me its just a novelty factor I do hope when it comes to wedding clients the B&G are educated enough that photo and video are two separate medium. If us wedding photogs end up becoming a jack of all trades where we are expected to become videographers as well I think our quality of work will suffer. But who knows. Maybe we'll adapt in some weird way (like grow a second head)

by **Bindii** on Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:28 am

mickeyjuice wrote:An interesting take, more on the video side of it. It's killer, apparently. (includes screengrabs)

http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008/09/ ... -industry/

Interesting... and here's a link to the video he has made... very nice..

http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller ... cleID=2086

by **gstark** on Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:17 pm

Between the D90 and the 5DII, the market is about to undergo a massive shift, and perhaps even moreso than I originally thought when I was first told about the video capabilities of the D90.

I have no concerns at all about the perceived "issue" that the D90 can only shoot continuously for five minutes: in video terms, that is a very long single sequence, and from a practical sense, is unlikely to present any real impediment to anyone or anything. Clearly the 5DII's 12 minute limitation is an even less relevant non-issue.

The ability to shoot high quality video, using high quality but relatively inexpensive glass, is the real bonus here, but there should be opportunities for somebody to now supply a high quality but inexpensive audio recording solution, because that is going to be the prime impediment in using these cameras as a video tool in a more professional environment, as distinct from the amateur marketplace.

The bottom line though is that these changes only mean good things for all of us, and the future has never looked more exciting.

by **DaveB** on Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:24 pm

gstark wrote:The ability to shoot high quality video, using high quality but relatively inexpensive glass, is the real bonus here, but there should be opportunities for somebody to now supply a high quality but inexpensive audio recording solution, because that is going to be the prime impediment in using these cameras as a video tool in a more professional environment, as distinct from the amateur marketplace.

I use an old Zoom H4, but if you want to experiment with this I'd recommend looking at the Edirol R09HR for $400-ish. SDHC audio recording in WAV or MP3 formats, up to 24 bits/sample at 96 kHz. But of course just like cameras and their lenses, you can end up spending more on the microphones than the recorder!

by **Bugeyes** on Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:42 pm

Bindii wrote:
mickeyjuice wrote:An interesting take, more on the video side of it. It's killer, apparently. (includes screengrabs)

http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008/09/ ... -industry/

Interesting... and here's a link to the video he has made... very nice..

http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller ... cleID=2086

Laforet did a wonderful job, It was dynamic, interesting and left you wanting more, I certainly wanted to know if the bloke got to the girl in time. The use of DOF and bokeh was very good as was the perspective. When you consider the short time frame involved and that he did this with an unfamiliar piece of equipment with no manual or instructions, for 5K it really is quite amazing, he certainly has my respect!

by **moz** on Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:01 pm

DaveB wrote:But of course just like cameras and their lenses, you can end up spending more on the microphones than the recorder!

You can buy cheap but worthwhile microphones? Do tell...

I vote we get Poon to start stocking some basic audio gear, coz all mine is so far out of date I don't think it even works any more. Not that it's important to me just yet, I mostly just want recognisable vox and a basic clip-on will do that (for a couple of grand. Oh, wait, what were we saying?)

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