Glanz 160di Studio Light Kit - opinions please

[BullcreekBob]

G'day

Lighting is something that really leaves me in the dark.

But I know I want to buy a starter lighting kit for taking portraits from home and possibly the local school. I have looked at the prices of Bouwen lights - Wow !! far outside what I want to pay as a first step. I am happy to buy cheap and then pay real money later if I want to go that way (or once I understand why I'm paying so much).

I've thought about the Golden Eagle kit through the bargains section and that seems fine. Another similarly priced option is the Glanz kit which I can buy through a local camera store for $499 (and get the GST back so $450). This puts them in the same pricepoint but potentially I can then freely use the camera store as a source of advice and tuition. I don't know anyone here in Perth with a lighting kit that could otherwise act as a mentor/tutor so being able to nag the camera shop is attractive.

So, does anyone have any feedback on the Glanz kit?

Kit Contents:

3x Pro 160Di flash heads
3x light stands
2x translucent white umbrellas
1x reflective silver umbrella
1x heavy duty case
1x radio trigger flash
3x PC sync cables
1x Modelling lamp

Brilliant Pro 160Di Head Specifications:

Power: 160WS
Colour Temperature: 5600K
Guide No: 38
Recycle Time: 0.5-5 sec
Variable Power: 1/8-Full, stepless
Modelling Light: 75W Halogen
Trigger: Test button, slave, sync cord
Power Source: 200-240V AC
Fuse: 2A (Spares included)
Dimensions: 165x70x75
Weight: 1000g

[StarForge]

Just thought I'd link the images to the kit

[gstark]

Bob,

Looks to be pretty good value, and not too far off what the GE is. Remember with the GE you also get some softboxes and barndoors.

And don't forget that we also have a cheaper, 2 head kit, that is also very usable.

And just for good measure, the light stands and brollies from any of these can also be used with stuff like your SB800; all you need to do is buy the hotshoe adapter. When you you look at the cost of brollies and light stands (in all the usual places) you'll understand why I say that if you buy one of these kits, you're effectively getting the heads for free.

And these are dead easy to use, btw. I personally think that using the CLS only helps to screw with your mind. It way over complicates something that is essentially a simple thing to do.

[BullcreekBob]

I personally think that using the CLS only helps to screw with your mind. It way over complicates something that is essentially a simple thing to do.

Thanks Gary

I suspect you're right. When I do my "playing" with the D300's commander and a slave sb800 & sb600 I usually end up with a headache. When I use a studio in town, I just position the lights about where I think, set any relative differences in power and hit the camera go button. Check histogram, adjust if necessary (aperture or power output) and shoot away.

Light meter? Phht. Cost too much anyway !!

Cheers
Bob

[janbopix]

Can you use a softbox with the Glanz kit?

[Oz_Beachside]

dont like it from first glance. looks like you would be extremely limited for modifiers. bare, and umbrella.

if these are $600, is say wait until you save another few hundred, and get lights with an industry norm fitting so you will not be limited for future lighting modifiers. for example the fitting type "Bowens s-type" is common on many cheapo lighting kits, and there are many ripoff modifiers available on ebay etc, so you can explore and expand your lighting set up with your skills/imagination.

tell us what space you are working in? if your setup will 80% of the time be in a spare room, say 3.6m sqr, then a 200w/s lighting set will most likely do, and you can get bowens ones or elincrom for under $1000 and never be limited to modifiers.

also, how often will you use it?

for me, I like to get somehting once, not buy crap only to replace it with what I should have bought in the first place. if cost is an issue, make time your friend, and resist updating a body for 12 months, and put that years photography budget into the better lights. buying quality usually means you can take it to a tech, and get spares, rather than being told its unrepairable.

[surenj]

This it looks very similar to the GE that I acquired recently. I do wonder whether it's the same chinese company and different branding?

This would be good enough for occasional amateur use just like the GE. I am not sure whether they will last the mile like the PRO heavyduty lights...

Suren

[junda]

i find 160w a bit too weak. u better off getting a sb600/800

u shd start off with 300w ,3 lights doesnt really have much control if it's 160w

[gstark]

i find 160w a bit too weak. u better off getting a sb600/800

u shd start off with 300w ,3 lights doesnt really have much control if it's 160w

What size room are you using, and how far away from your models are you placing the lights?

We have had no issues whatsoever using lights with as little power as 120ws. Typically, we rarely need to turn the lights above 50% power.

While the SB600/800 are good, they are not ideal, overly complex to set up and use (especially for something as simple as lighting) and they have no real modeling light.

And please, a couple of important points that you need to attend to: you need to have a meaningful location in your profile. Please refer to the message for new members on the portal page for details of what this means.

Please also take a few moments to read the FAQ. "You" is "you" and not "u". "Should" is "should" and not "shd". We have many people here for whom English is not their first language. This is a forum in which the stated language is English, not SMS texting. Unless your ISP charges you by the character for your uploads, then you need to please respect our rules, and use English for your communications here.

Thank you for your future cooperation.

[surenj]

In terms of the watt second power of each light; This only becomes important only if you have a VERY large room lighting a large area of subjects who are mobile and/or doing complex shoots outside where you need to overpower the sun.

When it's a small room/studio for example 8mX 8m or so and you are using these as the only lights, three 160ws lights should be more than plenty unless you want to shoot ISO50 1/500 f28 for whatever reason...

[gstark]

unless you want to shoot ISO50 1/500 f28 for whatever reason...

Actually, for most stuff where you're using strobes, shutter speed will be largely irrelevant.

[surenj]

unless you want to shoot ISO50 1/500 f28 for whatever reason...

Actually, for most stuff where you're using strobes, shutter speed will be largely irrelevant.

my Sony Gary, Only limitation of this would be your camera sync speed I suppose.

[junda]

i find 160w a bit too weak. u better off getting a sb600/800

u shd start off with 300w ,3 lights doesnt really have much control if it's 160w

What size room are you using, and how far away from your models are you placing the lights?

We have had no issues whatsoever using lights with as little power as 120ws. Typically, we rarely need to turn the lights above 50% power.

While the SB600/800 are good, they are not ideal, overly complex to set up and use (especially for something as simple as lighting) and they have no real modeling light.

And please, a couple of important points that you need to attend to: you need to have a meaningful location in your profile. Please refer to the message for new members on the portal page for details of what this means.

Please also take a few moments to read the FAQ. "You" is "you" and not "u". "Should" is "should" and not "shd". We have many people here for whom English is not their first language. This is a forum in which the stated language is English, not SMS texting. Unless your ISP charges you by the character for your uploads, then you need to please respect our rules, and use English for your communications here.

Thank you for your future cooperation.

my Sony on the short form

yes giving my feedback on my experience. furthermore does this set does it has other light modification for you to purchase in the future if there is a need?

[gstark]

i find 160w a bit too weak. u better off getting a sb600/800

u shd start off with 300w ,3 lights doesnt really have much control if it's 160w

What size room are you using, and how far away from your models are you placing the lights?

We have had no issues whatsoever using lights with as little power as 120ws. Typically, we rarely need to turn the lights above 50% power.

While the SB600/800 are good, they are not ideal, overly complex to set up and use (especially for something as simple as lighting) and they have no real modeling light.

And please, a couple of important points that you need to attend to: you need to have a meaningful location in your profile. Please refer to the message for new members on the portal page for details of what this means.

Please also take a few moments to read the FAQ. "You" is "you" and not "u". "Should" is "should" and not "shd". We have many people here for whom English is not their first language. This is a forum in which the stated language is English, not SMS texting. Unless your ISP charges you by the character for your uploads, then you need to please respect our rules, and use English for your communications here.

Thank you for your future cooperation.

my Sony on the short form

Yes. I had little doubt that it was me.

Please now pay attention to the other of the important points that I mentioned: I have now highlighted this for you.

yes giving my feedback on my experience. furthermore does this set does it has other light modification for you to purchase in the future if there is a need?

What is your experience, please? You've made some statements. I've sought some clarification, but you've not yet provided any answers, so it makes it difficult for us to understand what you're saying, where you've been, and what you may have done.

Most kits come with modifiers such as soft boxes and/or brollies. The Golden Eagles also come with barndoors, and there's a beauty dish available for them as well. For the size and (lack of) cost of these small kits, they are exceptional value, and a full multi-light kit, with stands, heads, and modifiers, can be obtained for less than the cost of a single SB800.

Now, please remind me ... the SB800s are better because ...... ????

[junda]

i find 160w a bit too weak. u better off getting a sb600/800

u shd start off with 300w ,3 lights doesnt really have much control if it's 160w

What size room are you using, and how far away from your models are you placing the lights?

We have had no issues whatsoever using lights with as little power as 120ws. Typically, we rarely need to turn the lights above 50% power.

While the SB600/800 are good, they are not ideal, overly complex to set up and use (especially for something as simple as lighting) and they have no real modeling light.

And please, a couple of important points that you need to attend to: you need to have a meaningful location in your profile. Please refer to the message for new members on the portal page for details of what this means.

Please also take a few moments to read the FAQ. "You" is "you" and not "u". "Should" is "should" and not "shd". We have many people here for whom English is not their first language. This is a forum in which the stated language is English, not SMS texting. Unless your ISP charges you by the character for your uploads, then you need to please respect our rules, and use English for your communications here.

Thank you for your future cooperation.

my Sony on the short form

Yes. I had little doubt that it was me.

Please now pay attention to the other of the important points that I mentioned: I have now highlighted this for you.

yes giving my feedback on my experience. furthermore does this set does it has other light modification for you to purchase in the future if there is a need?

What is your experience, please? You've made some statements. I've sought some clarification, but you've not yet provided any answers, so it makes it difficult for us to understand what you're saying, where you've been, and what you may have done.

Most kits come with modifiers such as soft boxes and/or brollies. The Golden Eagles also come with barndoors, and there's a beauty dish available for them as well. For the size and (lack of) cost of these small kits, they are exceptional value, and a full multi-light kit, with stands, heads, and modifiers, can be obtained for less than the cost of a single SB800.

Now, please remind me ... the SB800s are better because ...... ????

gary, the threadstarter is asking about glanz kit. I wanted to check with him if his kit got other light modifier options and if he planning to get them. i'm just giving him another option. SB800s is better cause it's more portable. if he's just a hobbyist sb 800 is more than sufficient and he bring it out during his travel too.

"What is your experience, please?"
gary are u trolling? i dont think one need to show off his experience to give a feedback?

[gstark]

i find 160w a bit too weak. u better off getting a sb600/800

u shd start off with 300w ,3 lights doesnt really have much control if it's 160w

What size room are you using, and how far away from your models are you placing the lights?

We have had no issues whatsoever using lights with as little power as 120ws. Typically, we rarely need to turn the lights above 50% power.

While the SB600/800 are good, they are not ideal, overly complex to set up and use (especially for something as simple as lighting) and they have no real modeling light.

And please, a couple of important points that you need to attend to: you need to have a meaningful location in your profile. Please refer to the message for new members on the portal page for details of what this means.

Please also take a few moments to read the FAQ. "You" is "you" and not "u". "Should" is "should" and not "shd". We have many people here for whom English is not their first language. This is a forum in which the stated language is English, not SMS texting. Unless your ISP charges you by the character for your uploads, then you need to please respect our rules, and use English for your communications here.

Thank you for your future cooperation.

my Sony on the short form

Yes. I had little doubt that it was me.

Please now pay attention to the other of the important points that I mentioned: I have now highlighted this for you.

yes giving my feedback on my experience. furthermore does this set does it has other light modification for you to purchase in the future if there is a need?

What is your experience, please? You've made some statements. I've sought some clarification, but you've not yet provided any answers, so it makes it difficult for us to understand what you're saying, where you've been, and what you may have done.

Most kits come with modifiers such as soft boxes and/or brollies. The Golden Eagles also come with barndoors, and there's a beauty dish available for them as well. For the size and (lack of) cost of these small kits, they are exceptional value, and a full multi-light kit, with stands, heads, and modifiers, can be obtained for less than the cost of a single SB800.

Now, please remind me ... the SB800s are better because ...... ????

gary, the threadstarter is asking about glanz kit. I wanted to check with him if his kit got other light modifier options and if he planning to get them.

That was a later question on your part. It was nothing at all to do with how you joined this thread. Please see below ...

i'm just giving him another option. SB800s is better cause it's more portable. if he's just a hobbyist sb 800 is more than sufficient and he bring it out during his travel too.

"What is your experience, please?"
gary are u trolling? i dont think one need to show off his experience to give a feedback?

Trolling? No. Bite your tongue, and pay attention!

You made some statements where you stated, quite clearly, that you thought that anything less than 300ws was not going to do the job. I refer you to your first two sentences. they have been repeated within this thread a number of times now. Perhaps my highlighting them just a little for you may help you to remember what you have said ...

I have asked you for further information upon those statements, because I don't accept them. I do accept that under certain - many even - circumstances that your statements might be reasonable, but I also contend that, for most circumstances that many members here would encounter, even 120ws lights would be more than sufficient. The differences would come down to shooting conditions, and/or techniques, and/or one's understanding of the use of the equipment in question.

So, again, please clarify your original statements: what circumstances, what experiences ... how were you shooting that led you to believe that people need at least 300ws? I am not asking you to adopt a defensive posture. I am not attacking you: I wish to know how you arrived at the position you have adopted, so that we all may learn from your experiences, which are different from mine. So please, take your ego and leave it elsewhere!

The point is that I contend that much less power is perfectly acceptable, and I am trying to reconcile your statements with what my experiences leads me to understand to be true, given certain shooting parameters. You raised the issue; please deal with it.

And yes, the SB800 is small-ish, and somewhat portable. But in many circumstances, the on-camera flash will do a more than adequate job too. It's even more portable than the SB800, and takes up no extra space. But as I said, its correct use is highly complex, and its manual is only marginally less comprehensible than your continued use of SMS style language, which you have already been informed is not acceptable here, so please desist from this.

And for the third time, I will now ask you to place a meaningful location into your profile. This is no longer a request: it is a reminder to you that it is a requirement of your membership here.

[junda]

i find 160w a bit too weak. u better off getting a sb600/800

u shd start off with 300w ,3 lights doesnt really have much control if it's 160w

What size room are you using, and how far away from your models are you placing the lights?

We have had no issues whatsoever using lights with as little power as 120ws. Typically, we rarely need to turn the lights above 50% power.

While the SB600/800 are good, they are not ideal, overly complex to set up and use (especially for something as simple as lighting) and they have no real modeling light.

And please, a couple of important points that you need to attend to: you need to have a meaningful location in your profile. Please refer to the message for new members on the portal page for details of what this means.

Please also take a few moments to read the FAQ. "You" is "you" and not "u". "Should" is "should" and not "shd". We have many people here for whom English is not their first language. This is a forum in which the stated language is English, not SMS texting. Unless your ISP charges you by the character for your uploads, then you need to please respect our rules, and use English for your communications here.

Thank you for your future cooperation.

my Sony on the short form

Yes. I had little doubt that it was me.

Please now pay attention to the other of the important points that I mentioned: I have now highlighted this for you.

yes giving my feedback on my experience. furthermore does this set does it has other light modification for you to purchase in the future if there is a need?

What is your experience, please? You've made some statements. I've sought some clarification, but you've not yet provided any answers, so it makes it difficult for us to understand what you're saying, where you've been, and what you may have done.

Most kits come with modifiers such as soft boxes and/or brollies. The Golden Eagles also come with barndoors, and there's a beauty dish available for them as well. For the size and (lack of) cost of these small kits, they are exceptional value, and a full multi-light kit, with stands, heads, and modifiers, can be obtained for less than the cost of a single SB800.

Now, please remind me ... the SB800s are better because ...... ????

gary, the threadstarter is asking about glanz kit. I wanted to check with him if his kit got other light modifier options and if he planning to get them.

That was a later question on your part. It was nothing at all to do with how you joined this thread. Please see below ...

i'm just giving him another option. SB800s is better cause it's more portable. if he's just a hobbyist sb 800 is more than sufficient and he bring it out during his travel too.

"What is your experience, please?"
gary are u trolling? i dont think one need to show off his experience to give a feedback?

Trolling? No. Bite your tongue, and pay attention!

You made some statements where you stated, quite clearly, that you thought that anything less than 300ws was not going to do the job. I refer you to your first two sentences. they have been repeated within this thread a number of times now. Perhaps my highlighting them just a little for you may help you to remember what you have said ...

I have asked you for further information upon those statements, because I don't accept them. I do accept that under certain - many even - circumstances that your statements might be reasonable, but I also contend that, for most circumstances that many members here would encounter, even 120ws lights would be more than sufficient. The differences would come down to shooting conditions, and/or techniques, and/or one's understanding of the use of the equipment in question.

So, again, please clarify your original statements: what circumstances, what experiences ... how were you shooting that led you to believe that people need at least 300ws? I am not asking you to adopt a defensive posture. I am not attacking you: I wish to know how you arrived at the position you have adopted, so that we all may learn from your experiences, which are different from mine. So please, take your ego and leave it elsewhere!

The point is that I contend that much less power is perfectly acceptable, and I am trying to reconcile your statements with what my experiences leads me to understand to be true, given certain shooting parameters. You raised the issue; please deal with it.

And yes, the SB800 is small-ish, and somewhat portable. But in many circumstances, the on-camera flash will do a more than adequate job too. It's even more portable than the SB800, and takes up no extra space. But as I said, its correct use is highly complex, and its manual is only marginally less comprehensible than your continued use of SMS style language, which you have already been informed is not acceptable here, so please desist from this.

And for the third time, I will now ask you to place a meaningful location into your profile. This is no longer a request: it is a reminder to you that it is a requirement of your membership here.

Threadstarter asked if the set of lights is sufficient to shoot at his place or perhaps in a local school. If you want to minimise shadows especially for a session in school. A more powerful set of light is required in the scenario shooting for a club or class size. By using 160w fitted with light modifier means you have to bring the set of light close to your subjects to obtain the desire depth of field but it has ugly shadows everywhere.Same scenario for shooting at home. With a lightmodifier on, you approximately lose around 1-2stops depending on what you use. Main concern is shadows and lack of a main light. I feel that Bob will almost immediately find this set of light very limited and hence I do not wish him to make a bad decision.


Base on your view on SB800, I am quite certain you are not an avid strobist as you say an onboard flash is sufficient. I recommend SB800 as you can bring it around and also ensure light at the given condition is not so flat. There are other possibilities as you can definitely mount it on a tripod and use it like a studio light. When I am travelling, this is like the perfect companion as it almost feels like bringing your studio out there. Current gantz lighting set does not has a specification a lot better than SB800 and it's definitely not portable. if bob just wants to learn about lighting set up, he can consider a portable flash instead not necessary sb800, metz,or sunpak is good enough also.I am very sure he will learn a lot using portable flash, after that he can reconsider if he trully needs a more expensive lighting system. Perhaps you might also want to get a few of those to learn since you mention it is a complicated system.

[gstark]

Threadstarter asked if the set of lights is sufficient to shoot at his place or perhaps in a local school.

Correct.

Perhaps in a local school. That's a possibility. Not a definite. A Maybe. It does NOT mean definitely, and it does not necessarily mean large groups.

It might. Or it might not.

He also says in that same post that he is willing to start cheap, and pay again later.

He also says in that post that he knows little about lighting.

So, let's just work within those parameters, but let's also think about what we're saying, and the longer term consequences of what we're recommending.

If you want to minimise shadows especially for a session in school. A more powerful set of light is required in the scenario shooting for a club or class size.

Correct, but this is both an unlikely scenario given what Bob has said in his OP.

By using 160w fitted with light modifier means you have to bring the set of light close to your subjects to obtain the desire depth of field but it has ugly shadows everywhere.

With a two light set and a large group, you are likely to get ugly shadows regardless of the power of the lights, unless you know how and where to set the lights. But the room would have a part to play here too. Is the room large or small? How high is the ceiling? And what is the colour of the ceiling? What about the walls? What modifiers and reflectors do you have available?

But again, this is unlikely to be the primary scenario in Bob's case.

Same scenario for shooting at home. With a lightmodifier on, you approximately lose around 1-2stops depending on what you use. Main concern is shadows and lack of a main light. I feel that Bob will almost immediately find this set of light very limited and hence I do not wish him to make a bad decision.

I certainly don't want him to make a bad decision either. Yes, some light will be lost with the use of modifiers, but for small group portraiture, these kits are perfect. Again, when we use them, in a large room, and for groups of up to three people, we have use them at about 50% power. With modifiers. Brollies. Softboxes. f/8. f/11. Many times. 50% power setting.

What am I missing?

Please tell me what I am doing wrong, because what I'm doing seems to be working.

Also, for shooting large groups, what is a "main light"? In large groups, I would suggest that this is not really a valid concept. Rather, you would choose to try to light the whole group evenly. In small group portraiture, fair enough, but again, you no longer have the issues that you have enumerated, so it's no big deal.

Base on your view on SB800, I am quite certain you are not an avid strobist as you say an onboard flash is sufficient.

Please tell me exactly what an "avid strobist" might be? I have never heard this term before, so please .... illuminate me.

I recommend SB800 as you can bring it around and also ensure light at the given condition is not so flat.

Bring it around? Is it unconcious? What exactly do you mean?

If you mean you can locate it where you need it, then yes, but you can do this with any number of different flashheads. I don't see your point. That is not a property that the SB800 holds exclusively. There are small Sunpacks that are designed especially to be used as slaves, and will do a similar job, for a fraction of the cost of an SB800.

There are other possibilities as you can definitely mount it on a tripod and use it like a studio light.

Quite correct.

A couple of points here, however. First of all, you were extolling the virtues of just how portable the SB800 was. Now you're carrying around tripods and/or lightstands onto which you're gong to mount the SB800s. What happened to your portability?

Poof! It's gone.

And how much will those tripods/lightstands cost? Plus adaptors? Brackets? And light modifiers, like brollies and softboxes? In these small kits, you get all of these included in the basic cost, and again, for less than the cost of your first SB800, and for about the same cost as just buying those stands etc at your local camera store.

You're not yet showing me any advantages to using the SB800, but let's continue ....

When I am travelling, this is like the perfect companion as it almost feels like bringing your studio out there. Current gantz lighting set does not has a specification a lot better than SB800 and it's definitely not portable.

Traveling? Bob has already indicated very limited traveling. At home, and possibly his local school, remember? That's not a whole lot of travel, in my book.

But if you look at the Glanz kit (in the photo), or you look at the Golden Eagle kit, you might care to notice that they each come with a carry bag, into which you may put the stands, modifiers, heads, cables, so that you may conveniently carry them around from here to there.

What carry bag, for the stands, modifiers, etc, does the SB800 come with? Oh yes, I remember: none! So you have a gaggle of tripods, light stands, and modifiers falling around inside your car's boot. A cable can easily fall between crevices within your car's boot. Ask me how I know.

Sounds pretty convenient, doesn't it?. All this convenience costs more too, remember. Yep, this sure sounds like a solid decision to me.

if bob just wants to learn about lighting set up, he can consider a portable flash instead not necessary sb800, metz,or sunpak is good enough also.I am very sure he will learn a lot using portable flash, after that he can reconsider if he trully needs a more expensive lighting system. Perhaps you might also want to get a few of those to learn since you mention it is a complicated system.

The only thing that I have said is complicated is the use of the SB800. Nikon's CLS is good, but overly complex. And it requires the use of several SB800s. Lighting is basically pretty simple, but CLS makes it seem otherwise.

It's way cheaper, way easier, way quicker, to just set up a few lights, shoot, chimp, adjust power and lighting ratios, shoot, chimp, re-adjust power and lighting ratios, shoot, and chimp.

Metz is great, and I have mentioned Sunpack already too, but if you're going down that path, you will also (still) be needing modifiers and stands.

Now: here's the math test for you. Let's see if you pass.

Solution A: A basic two light kit with stands, modifiers, heads and triggers costs just a couple of hundred. Set it up, and you're ready to go.

Solution B: A couple of stands, on their own, each cost about $70. Brollies, about $35. Each. Soft boxes, a little more. Each. Adapters, so you can fix a flash unit to the light stand, around 30. Each. You need to buy at least two of each of these. If you like, replace the light stands with tripods. No major difference in cost if you're going for a cheap tripod, but significant loss of functionality: less height available, bigger, heavier.

And you've still not yet got any light sources.

If you add in the SB800s, don't forget to add in the extra time to learn to read the manual, and then to find someone to tell you how to use the bloody things, because the manual is as useful as a bicycle is to a fish.

And the cost of batteries: two sets of five, and a decent charger.

Which is the least expensive solution?

Don't get me wrong: if you're shooting outdoors, where there's no available power source, then something like an SB800 or a pocketful of Sunpacks will be a very useful tool.

But for home use, for learning something about lighting, for learning how to set up basic multi-light scenarios, for shooting people from individuals up to groups of maybe five people, there is little that is better value, easier to set up and use, than one of these small kits with heads in the range of 120ws to 200ws. They are designed for exactly these situations, and they are perfect for them, and they are exceptional value too.

And in exactly the same scenario, a beginner will be screwed in trying to use an SB800 because it's just too complex in its usage.

And all the parts - the stands, the adapters, the triggers, the cables etc - that you get in these kits are able to be used with other situations as well: do you think that your Metz, Sunpack, or SB800 cares if it's sitting on top of a Manfrotto or a GE stand? Of course it doesn't!

[aim54x]

with Gary on this one. The cheap Glanz or Golden Eagle kits are much better value than a few SB-800/600s and stands.

The SB-800/600/METZ/SUNPAK/NISSSIN is more portable if you are not lugging around stands but they will cost a lot more than one of these kits (we are looking at $500 for one of these kits and minimum $200ish per flash - cheapest I have seen).

I dont have the money or the room for one of these kits so I use a SB-800 and a SB-600 as my portable lighting, but I often just use available light where I can to keep things simple. I dont carry around stands for my flashes, only the tripod shoes that come with them, and often find myself enslaving people around me to hold them.

I dont find CLS too hard, but I do find it limiting, especially in range. A mate recommended getting a Manfrotto 001B Nano stand and an umbrella, but I dont even carry a tripod most of the time so I am not sure if it is worth getting this lighting stand.

Each to his own, the kits sound like a much better solution for Bullcreekbob, and learning to work with strobes is an important skill for some people. I would love to learn to work with this gear, but I dont have access/money/time at the moment.

I think the main argument here is buy cheap and rebuy vs buy once and buy good.

[junda]

you dont really have to get a specific stand or tripod for a SB 600/800, any tripod will do with the adapter given. SB600/800 is not limited to using its CLS. I personally do not like to use CLS also. it's possible to add a wireless trigger on them to increase its range. I also quoted SB600/800 as more people here might have used them before. I also said other cheaper flash alternative is fine too if sole purpose is to learn about set up.

I let him know there is a flash option cause i feel they are cheap and handy and serve whatever gantz can do base on the kit he list out. If he already has a tripod and flash getting another flash does not cost you a bomb. I do not know how much budget he has. but cost of 2 flash is definitely way lower than 1k.As I mentioned earlier, I asked if he really require the glanz system. is he getting more modifier? Travelling i meant by going on a vacation, not transporting the lights. Yes ,I do travel around with my tripod and flash so to me it is portable? Different people just see portable differently. If he is going to change a light system in the future , getting flashes for the learning curve makes more sense as I am sure there are more use for it. If he is changing his system, will he even get modifiers as there are different mount for different system. point is we do not know what is enough for him at the moment.

He might also consider getting just 1 light but higher power instead if he already have a flash. he can also use the flash as a slave and play around with it at the moment. These are just options. If you still do not see eye to eye with me with this issue, I feel it's just a matter of different point of view. I have never said you are wrong or anything, I am just providing him with more options. Just let him weigh the pros and cons.

[gstark]

you dont really have to get a specific stand or tripod for a SB 600/800, any tripod will do with the adapter given. SB600/800 is not limited to using its CLS. I personally do not like to use CLS also. it's possible to add a wireless trigger on them to increase its range. I also quoted SB600/800 as more people here might have used them before. I also said other cheaper flash alternative is fine too if sole purpose is to learn about set up.

I let him know there is a flash option cause i feel they are cheap and handy and serve whatever gantz can do base on the kit he list out. If he already has a tripod and flash getting another flash does not cost you a bomb. I do not know how much budget he has. but cost of 2 flash is definitely way lower than 1k.As I mentioned earlier, I asked if he really require the glanz system. is he getting more modifier? Travelling i meant by going on a vacation, not transporting the lights. Yes ,I do travel around with my tripod and flash so to me it is portable? Different people just see portable differently. If he is going to change a light system in the future , getting flashes for the learning curve makes more sense as I am sure there are more use for it. If he is changing his system, will he even get modifiers as there are different mount for different system. point is we do not know what is enough for him at the moment.

He might also consider getting just 1 light but higher power instead if he already have a flash. he can also use the flash as a slave and play around with it at the moment. These are just options. If you still do not see eye to eye with me with this issue, I feel it's just a matter of different point of view. I have never said you are wrong or anything, I am just providing him with more options. Just let him weigh the pros and cons.

I really have no idea what you're trying to say here.

But the bottom line is very simple:

Fact: One SB800 will cost $520. No stands. No modifiers. Just the flash. Just the one SB800. The SB800 is difficult to use, and its manual is confusing.

Fact: A three light Golden Eagle kit, with stands, modifiers, wireless triggers and carry bag, will cost Bob $500. The price has gone up over the last few weeks due to the wonderful performance of the Pacific Peso.

Fact: One SB800 will cost $520. No stands. No modifiers. Just the flash. Just the one SB800. The SB800 is difficult to use, and its manual is confusing.

Fact: The three head Glanz kit will cost the same as the GE, it contains a little less stuff than the GE kit, but Bob gets a GST benefit, as well as a chance to establish a relationship with a local store.

Fact: Glaz have been making accessories for a long time, and I would have no issues buying their product.

Fact: One SB800 will cost $520. No stands. No modifiers. Just the flash. Just the one SB800. The SB800 is difficult to use, and its manual is confusing.

The chance to establish a good relationship with a local store is significant. So too is the absence of value that an SB800 represents in this discussion.

[gstark]

I think the main argument here is buy cheap and rebuy vs buy once and buy good.

Not quite, Cameron.

With a tripod, the argument is to try to buy right, just the once, and the same is basically true of glass.

With lighting, you have a chance to build a kit, as you can with glass. So you can start with a basic kit (say GE 3 set or Qihe 2 set) and then build upon it. First up, add a light tent. Everything you already have will still be usable. Then maybe add a couple of SBs or EXs, but note that you will already have usable stands and modifiers from your basic kit. And everything you already have will still be usable.

Need more? Add a Bowens or AlienBee. Add a beauty dish. Throw a reflector into the carry bag.Some battery packs. And yes, everything you already have will still be usable, but your capabilities will be growing. The only trick here is to make sure that, as your first port of call, you get something that is reasonable value, versatile and easy to use, and can be readily expanded.

SBs as that first port of call, don't qualify on any of the first three of these challenges.

[aim54x]

I think the main argument here is buy cheap and rebuy vs buy once and buy good.

Not quite, Cameron.

With a tripod, the argument is to try to buy right, just the once, and the same is basically true of glass.

With lighting, you have a chance to build a kit, as you can with glass. So you can start with a basic kit (say GE 3 set or Qihe 2 set) and then build upon it. First up, add a light tent. Everything you already have will still be usable. Then maybe add a couple of SBs or EXs, but note that you will already have usable stands and modifiers from your basic kit. And everything you already have will still be usable.

Need more? Add a Bowens or AlienBee. Add a beauty dish. Throw a reflector into the carry bag.Some battery packs. And yes, everything you already have will still be usable, but your capabilities will be growing. The only trick here is to make sure that, as your first port of call, you get something that is reasonable value, versatile and easy to use, and can be readily expanded.

SBs as that first port of call, don't qualify on any of the first three of these challenges.

Gary, I understand what you mean by having stands and accessories to retain in your kit, and possibility to some strobe heads, but I have one question. I have always thought it was a case of compatibility and the ability to streamline your kit. Does the Glanz and the GE or Qihe have the same fittings as Bowen, Interfit or Elinchrome?? I know that I would not want to have multiple fittings and having to worry about bringing adaptors and different sets of cables etc.

I guess if you are very careful with the original purchase then you wont have those issues.

[gstark]

Gary, I understand what you mean by having stands and accessories to retain in your kit, and possibility to some strobe heads, but I have one question. I have always thought it was a case of compatibility and the ability to streamline your kit. Does the Glanz and the GE or Qihe have the same fittings as Bowen, Interfit or Elinchrome?? I know that I would not want to have multiple fittings and having to worry about bringing adaptors and different sets of cables etc.

I guess if you are very careful with the original purchase then you wont have those issues.

I don't see that as being a major issue, because many of the starter kits include the basic modifiers for you. I don't see a major need for that compatibility as I don't feel that it's totally necessary: as you move upstream in quality - and that's if you move upstream in quality, and I suspect 90+% of purchasers would not - then I think you'd want the higher quality (heavier duty) modifiers to go with the higher quality heads.

I basically see these smaller kits as ends unto their own means, and as starter platforms for those who want to learn and/or move on, at a later stage, to something bigger. The investment required for these is basically pocket money when compared with bigger kits, but despite that minimal investment, they are eminently serviceable, and that is why they represent such good value.

That said, all of the stands have common fittings, so the different heads will all fit all of the stands. How many of the heads from different manufacturers are able to share modifiers? How many camera bodies from different manufacturers are able to share glass?

[Reschsmooth]

Notwithstanding Bob's particular needs, I believe there is room in the debate for flashguns as an option.

Basically, it would be difficult to take shots like this* or this (ok, my skills aren't as good as Jonathan's) with a home studio kit. They can be taken with a Vivitar, Metz, Sunpack, SB/EX set up ($100-$400), Manfrotto Nano stand (c$100) with brolly adaptor ($40), brolly ($40+ from ebay) and radio trigger ($30?). So, you can grab two of each (say, two Metz CT45s) for a total cost of c$500, and have a very lightweight kit that can be used in environments where AC power is not available. Just like the studio kits, you meter off your histogram and don't have to worry about CLS.

As mentioned, this may not be the optimal solution for Bob, but for those who are looking for a more portable option, I believe it is viable. A small carry bag would be sufficient.


*Ok, you can do it, but you would need to carry around a very expensive floor battery pack.

[junda]

Notwithstanding Bob's particular needs, I believe there is room in the debate for flashguns as an option.

Basically, it would be difficult to take shots like this* or this (ok, my skills aren't as good as Jonathan's) with a home studio kit. They can be taken with a Vivitar, Metz, Sunpack, SB/EX set up ($100-$400), Manfrotto Nano stand (c$100) with brolly adaptor ($40), brolly ($40+ from ebay) and radio trigger ($30?). So, you can grab two of each (say, two Metz CT45s) for a total cost of c$500, and have a very lightweight kit that can be used in environments where AC power is not available. Just like the studio kits, you meter off your histogram and don't have to worry about CLS.

As mentioned, this may not be the optimal solution for Bob, but for those who are looking for a more portable option, I believe it is viable. A small carry bag would be sufficient.


*Ok, you can do it, but you would need to carry around a very expensive floor battery pack.

thanks a lot for showing the example. I have been trying to tell him about it and he has no idea what i am talking again and choose to pick a sb800 budget pricing example to put my suggestion down. like i say it is just another option to learn lighting set up for people to think about.

[gstark]

choose to pick a sb800 budget pricing

SB 800??

Budget pricing?

ROTFLMAO!

Please note that we are a very close community here. Please respect this fact, and pass around whatever it is that you are smoking.

Nobody has ever before described an SB800 as a budget solution, and unless you're referring to the NSW state government, which couldn't balance a budget with a set of pharmaceutical scales, then it won't happen here either.

[junda]

choose to pick a sb800 budget pricing

SB 800??

Budget pricing?

ROTFLMAO!

Please note that we are a very close community here. Please respect this fact, and pass around whatever it is that you are smoking.

Nobody has ever before described an SB800 as a budget solution, and unless you're referring to the NSW state government, which couldn't balance a budget with a set of pharmaceutical scales, then it won't happen here either.

huh ?

I meant you quoted sb800 pricing when u could have posted cheaper flash alternatives.
you are just trying to make it look expensive. are you laughing at your own example as budget?

sms language is suddenly allowed now?

why I do not post all the future elinchome and accessories pricing since he is thinking of upgrading? this is because it might affect his decision on lights altogether.you bring nsw state government plays a part all of a sudden for your own budget example??

[gstark]

I meant you quoted sb800 pricing when u could have posted cheaper flash alternatives.

Let's just go back a couple of days, to the very first mention of the SB800 in this thread. Can you remember who made it? (clue: it was you!)

So yes, but it was you who started this inane discussion suggesting the SB800 as an alternative to the budget flash heads. Had you suggested, in your initial diatribe, cheaper flash alternatives, then so, too, might I.

But you did not.

you are just trying to make it look expensive.

Er, no. The SB800 doesn't need my help to look expensive. That's because it is expensive. And directly imported versions of it went up by around 10% yesterday.

sms language is suddenly allowed now?

Never has been, never will be. You're showing a level of ignorance here, so please permit me to educate you.

SMS is a relatively new invention; it's about ten years old. The Internet has been around and in general use for a bit over twenty years, but computers have been around for a lot longer than that. Before the internet there were a very large number of discussion groups that used bulletin boards, and/or services like Compuserve, AOL, FIdoNet, and the like. Hell, AOL is way older than SMS, for instance!

It is those bulletin boards and services that were the genesis of forums such as this. They were old hat when I started using them in the 1980s, and they have not gotten any younger in the ensuing period.

And it is within those boards and services that the use of many acronyms like LOL, OMG, ROTFLMAO, OT (which you are in raising this matter), OOO (which you also are in raising this matter) and the like, and the use of emoticons (to use the correct name) began.

And it is nothing at all like the dreadful SMS-speak.

So, FFS, PYBHI!

why I do not post all the future elinchome and accessories pricing since he is thinking of upgrading?

I can think of a couple of reasons. First of all, because you're wrong: he is not thinking of upgrading. Check the definition of upgrading, and then check Bob's original post, and you'll observe that you're wrong, probably on two counts.

The other reasons are probably best not mentioned, but please see my earlier suggestion that you PYBHI.

[Reschsmooth]

sms language is suddenly allowed now?

Never has been, never will be. You're showing a level of ignorance here, so please permit me to educate you.

SMS is a relatively new invention; it's about ten years old. The Internet has been around and in general use for a bit over twenty years, but computers have been around for a lot longer than that. Before the internet there were a very large number of discussion groups that used bulletin boards, and/or services like Compuserve, AOL, FIdoNet, and the like. Hell, AOL is way older than SMS, for instance!

It is those bulletin boards and services that were the genesis of forums such as this. They were old hat when I started using them in the 1980s, and they have not gotten any younger in the ensuing period.

And it is within those boards and services that the use of many acronyms like LOL, OMG, ROTFLMAO, OT (which you are in raising this matter), OOO (which you also are in raising this matter) and the like, and the use of emoticons (to use the correct name) began.

And it is nothing at all like the dreadful SMS-speak.

So, FFS, PYBHI!

With all due respect, Gary, the FAQ also specify that 'Netspeak' is not tolerated, either, which I would assume extends to bulletin-board acronyms. For my benefit, I would also like to see a specific restriction on the use of the phrase "my bad". Restricted to the point of being impermissible.

Regarding the flash options, and moving on beyond the SB800, I have mentioned alternatives using flashguns which can be had, with peripherals, for roughly the same price as the other, budget, studio kits discussed. Each will have their advantages and disadvantages. For example, finding a softbox for a flashgun is more difficult, but, they also do not require mains power to run.

And, like I said, this is not necessarily relevant to Bob's planned usage, but for general consideration.

[gstark]

With all due respect, Gary, the FAQ also specify that 'Netspeak' is not tolerated, either, which I would assume extends to bulletin-board acronyms.

Not quite, IMHO.

As a general guide, acronyms are (for me) different from the crap we see such as "u" instead of "you", "ur" instead of "your", "l8r", and so on. The acronyms go way back, and are a part of computer history - that has been in general usage for at least 30 years - that extends way beyond the just general laziness that these contrived contrived contractions represent. The "for me" is probably somewhat significant here, within the context of these pages. :)

And I believe that the acronyms do have a legitimate place; whereas the contrived contractions ... FWIW, whn I ws stdying accntng @ TAFE - 80s - I used thm xtnsvly in my prsnl note-tking in clss so tht I cld quickly rcrd dtls of the cls fr l8r rvw.

In rtrspct, I found thm dficlt to rd'n'rcall thn, 'n nthn's chngd.

For my benefit, I would also like to see a specific restriction on the use of the phrase "my bad". Restricted to the point of being impermissible.

Me too. And I think I know how I can handle this. Give me a few minutes. It's been a while since I've had a play with the word censor feature.

I have mentioned alternatives using flashguns which can be had, with peripherals, for roughly the same price as the other, budget, studio kits discussed. Each will have their advantages and disadvantages. For example, finding a softbox for a flashgun is more difficult, but, they also do not require mains power to run.

Quite correct, and I don't think I've said anything contrary to this. I've also mentioned, for instance that there's a Sunpack specifically designed to be used as a slave unit.

It's just that when somebody comes in and tries to present the SB800 as a budget priced and/or simple to use alternative. It's portable; yes. But it's not inexpensive, not by a long shot, and it's certainly not, IMHO, simple to use.

[gstark]

For my benefit, I would also like to see a specific restriction on the use of the phrase "my bad". Restricted to the point of being impermissible.

Me too. And I think I know how I can handle this. Give me a few minutes.

Ok. Done.

I took the liberty of modifying your post ever so slightly so that we can keep the original context, but apart from this instance, that phrase has now been addressed.

[Reschsmooth]

With all due respect, Gary, the FAQ also specify that 'Netspeak' is not tolerated, either, which I would assume extends to bulletin-board acronyms.

Not quite, IMHO.

As a general guide, acronyms are (for me) different from the crap we see such as "u" instead of "you", "ur" instead of "your", "l8r", and so on. The acronyms go way back, and are a part of computer history - that has been in general usage for at least 30 years - that extends way beyond the just general laziness that these contrived contrived contractions represent.

And I believe that the acronyms do have a legitimate place; whereas the contrived contractions ... FWIW, whn I ws stdying accntng @ TAFE - 80s - I used thm xtnsvly in my prsnl note-tking in clss so tht I cld quickly rcrd dtls of the cls fr l8r rvw.

With respect to the passages highlighted, I will CTD ("choose to disagree").

1. I accept the use of acronyms in place of names, such as, (with reference to my professsion) ETP; SISA; ITAA; etc. I don't accept the use of acronyms in place of phrases, IMHO .
2. Given this, I find the use of acronyms to replace phrases on forums, emails, and other places in which there is no character restriction or time restriction, a sign of general laziness and disrespect to the person being communicated to. (This extends, most definitely, to the use of "SMS" speak). I don't believe I should have to try to work out what someone is trying to say because they could not be bothered actually saying it.

But, that is my view and this is not my house. And, this is getting very, very off topic.

For my benefit, I would also like to see a specific restriction on the use of the phrase "my bad". Restricted to the point of being impermissible.

Me too. And I think I know how I can handle this. Give me a few minutes. It's been a while since I've had a play with the word censor feature.

I can't wait.

[Reschsmooth]

I took the liberty of modifying your post ever so slightly so that we can keep the original context, but apart from this instance, that phrase has now been addressed.

To the point that I can't even see where you have modified it.

But, Mother English would be proud.

[junda]

I meant you quoted sb800 pricing when u could have posted cheaper flash alternatives.

Let's just go back a couple of days, to the very first mention of the SB800 in this thread. Can you remember who made it? (clue: it was you!)

So yes, but it was you who started this inane discussion suggesting the SB800 as an alternative to the budget flash heads. Had you suggested, in your initial diatribe, cheaper flash alternatives, then so, too, might I.

But you did not.

you are just trying to make it look expensive.

Er, no. The SB800 doesn't need my help to look expensive. That's because it is expensive. And directly imported versions of it went up by around 10% yesterday.

sms language is suddenly allowed now?

Never has been, never will be. You're showing a level of ignorance here, so please permit me to educate you.

why I do not post all the future elinchome and accessories pricing since he is thinking of upgrading?

I can think of a couple of reasons. First of all, because you're wrong: he is not thinking of upgrading. Check the definition of upgrading, and then check Bob's original post, and you'll observe that you're wrong, probably on two counts.

The other reasons are probably best not mentioned, but please see my earlier suggestion that you PYBHI.

"it" means the whole flash idea. my very first post was sb600/800 and later other brand alternatives depending on budget. then u wanted the whole light system a couple of sb800s and quoted sb800 pricing.

bob did mention considering the kit as first step means there is always a 2nd step correct me if i am wrong. hence i said he might considering upgrade in the future.

anyway i think it's pointless to debate with you cause the whole time you are trying to dig into people words. If both of us genuinely want to give him suggestions i guess it has more than enough for him to think about.

[gstark]

then u wanted the whole light system a couple of sb800s and quoted sb800 pricing.

No!

The original post was about a low-budget lighting kit. YOU brought in the SB800 and suggested it as an alternative to a low-budget lighting kit.

And no: any further use, by you, of SMS style language will see me taking action, within this forum, against you. Please accept this as your final warning about your failure to abide by our rules.

bob did mention considering the kit as first step means there is always a 2nd step correct me if i am wrong.

Then please take it as read that you are wrong, and that you have been corrected. A first is exactly that. It indicates that there may be further steps, but that is in no way a given. There are no guarantees that a second step will be taken: it may be or it may not be.

I don't have the ability to predict the future. I suspect that you may be similarly challenged in that regard. Please correct me if I am wrong in that particular suggestion.

anyway i think it's pointless to debate with you cause the whole time you are trying to dig into people words.

I am only able to comment upon the words that you write. If the words you have written happen to not make any sense ... if the words that you write happen to be illogical ... is that my fault? Respectfully, I would say it is not. Respectfully, may I suggest that you take ownership of the words that you have written?

[gstark]

I took the liberty of modifying your post ever so slightly so that we can keep the original context, but apart from this instance, that phrase has now been addressed.

To the point that I can't even see where you have modified it.

I squeezed an extra space in the middle, so that it can bypass the filter.

[Reschsmooth]

I took the liberty of modifying your post ever so slightly so that we can keep the original context, but apart from this instance, that phrase has now been addressed.

To the point that I can't even see where you have modified it.

I squeezed an extra space in the middle, so that it can bypass the filter.

A-ha!

[surenj]

Hey Gary, What if someone wanted to say "This is a picture of my Sony kitty?"

I noticed that the posts edited by Gary doesn't inform the users that they have been modified? Is that a good or bad thing? I would have thought that "Censored" or a similar should appear as well as which moderator edited it?

[gstark]

Hey Gary, What if someone wanted to say "This is a picture of ... My mistake, my error, my stupidity ... kitty?"

From the FAQ ...

Viewing requirements for this site
All who view or post on this site need to do so with their sense of humour intact and with a sense of levity.

The reality is that this is a part of the fun of being here; it's been quite a while since I've had to use the word censor, but it is a feature of these types of systems, and it's purpose is to protect us from the use of obscene terms ... such as this.

I noticed that the posts edited by Gary doesn't inform the users that they have been modified? Is that a good or bad thing?

I have noticed this too, and I honestly don't know why. It seems to be a feature of the forum software.

As it happens, I very rarely edit the posts of others - I have no real need to - and the only reason I stepped in to Patrick's was to keep his original content intact. When I do venture into the posts of others, I generally take the time to advise them in some way - as I did with Patrick in this instance.

I (and I'm sure the mods as well) may occasionally adjust a post (if I may use that term) when there are some mismatched tags, or images or links are not quite entered correctly. This would be done to assist others with their reading of the forum, and I'm not sure that any further notification would be needed, except perhaps to let the OP know so that they may learn from the adjustments made. I would view this as a normal moderation task.

Apart from those sorts of benign changes, I think that last time I may have stepped into someone's post may have been during some Poisson d'Avril tomfoolery, when a post or two may have been temporarily relocated where it was felt that the posters were acting (too early) as spoilers.

I'm pretty sure I speak on behalf of the other mods in this as well; they usually inform me when they do something like this.

Of course the other times (that I can think of) when I may step into the posts of others is when somebody comes here and posts spam. In those instances the mods may also act with my full authority and support, and we make no apologies at all for acting swiftly and with no thoughts or goodwill towards the offensive/offending posters.

Please (seriously) let me know if you disagree with how these matters are handled.

[who]

I noticed that the posts edited by Gary doesn't inform the users that they have been modified? Is that a good or bad thing? I would have thought that "Censored" or a similar should appear as well as which moderator edited it?

They aren't edited...... they are the result of an automatic filter that changes whatever fits the term inserted into whatever predefined phrase is desired by the Admin.

So my bad (when it only has 1 space) becomes something else.

Wildcards can also be used (at least in the older version of phpBB) as another forum I follow has f*k* (I think) setup to come up as xxxx -- makes a fishing discussion or a map discussion difficult when it censors flicked, flicking, and quite a few non rude words.....

[gstark]

I noticed that the posts edited by Gary doesn't inform the users that they have been modified? Is that a good or bad thing? I would have thought that "Censored" or a similar should appear as well as which moderator edited it?

They aren't edited...... they are the result of an automatic filter that changes whatever fits the term inserted into whatever predefined phrase is desired by the Admin.

Ian,

In the case of one of Patrick's posts in this thread, I did in fact edit it to add in an extra space to the referred-to phrase, so that Patrick's original post would not lose its context. The edits (by me) do not get flagged as such by the forum software, and I think that it is this fact that Surenj may be asking about.

Otherwise ...

So my bad (when it only has 1 space) becomes something else.

As well it should be.

Wildcards can also be used (at least in the older version of phpBB) as another forum I follow has f*k* (I think) setup to come up as xxxx -- makes a fishing discussion or a map discussion difficult when it censors flicked, flicking, and quite a few non rude words.....

Let's just accept that there are no words that might be traditionally referred to as "rude", but there a couple of terms that I find offensive and are therefore subject to, for want of a better term, censorship. This is probably not totally inconsistent (in some way) with my general belief that censorship is evil.

[surenj]

Thanks for clearing that up Gary. As with any private forum, internet or otherwise, it would be up to owner to define where frivolity begins or levity ends, and put appropriate restrictions and censorship in place as you have done here.

With the internet however it would so easy for people to assume that you actually typed what they see on screen. I think that anything (man or machine) which makes changes to the word spoken should be flagged as such. This is also up to the owners of the site to decide and users of the site to be aware of.

[BullcreekBob]

I should have jumped back into this thread a while ago, but I've not had much spare time recently so this thread has been unread by me for a while. It has been an interesting read with some *diversions* along the way.

One post that triggered quite a bit of discussion was ...

i find 160w a bit too weak. u better off getting a sb600/800

u shd start off with 300w ,3 lights doesnt really have much control if it's 160w

Thanks junda, but that does not address my learning requirement which was stated badly by me in the first post in this thread as "... I want to buy a starter lighting kit ..." In my *mind's eye* I had always considered flashes and lighting kits to be different things, but I can see my earlier view was limited and indeed multiple flashes could be considered as a lighting kit. In the fourth post in this thread (my second) I did say

... When I do my "playing" with the D300's commander and a slave sb800 & sb600 ...

So I have done some stuff with Flashes and I do have a sb600 and a sb26 and I can very easily borrow a sb800 anytime I want one. The D300 has a built in Commander so playing with Nikon CLS is fine (but confusing and I think unnecessarily complicated). Yes, I will benefit from more practice and experience using my flashes but I do have some of the basic requirements for that approach. What I don't have is stands, brollies and other stuff. It seemed to me that buying a basic lighting kit got me the full kit at the same cost I could pay for just the stands and brollies.

Anyway, thanks to all for their contributions to the thread and the responses to my request for opinions.

[gstark]

Thanks for clearing that up Gary. As with any private forum, internet or otherwise, it would be up to owner to define where frivolity begins or levity ends, and put appropriate restrictions and censorship in place as you have done here.

With the internet however it would so easy for people to assume that you actually typed what they see on screen. I think that anything (man or machine) which makes changes to the word spoken should be flagged as such. This is also up to the owners of the site to decide and users of the site to be aware of.

Exactly.

In these instances I do nothing to hide what's been done - there's no point - and those who know me know that I do have a somewhat quirky sense of humour (which seems to be shared, if not appreciated, by others here) and thus whenever something seemingly strange occurs ... ask.

Of course, the results of somebody getting inadvertently caught by the word censor can be most amusing, and I prefer that sort of usage (of the word censor) to the traditional: what's the point of trying to hide the fact that somebody has sworn? By covering it up, I think that you're actually highlighting what they've done and are drawing more attention to what might otherwise be contextually relevant.

Bob, yes.

[surenj]

Point taken, Thanks Gary.

[who]

And until gary gets frisky and makes Canon turn into a more descriptive term, we will be fairly safe Actually my Canon would have been a good substitute for the term in question

Although that would probably fire up a few more people again

[gstark]

Actually my Canon would have been a good substitute for the term in question

A germ of an idea ....

Word censor updated!

[aim54x]

Actually my Canon would have been a good substitute for the term in question

A germ of an idea ....

Word censor updated!

Now to find out what the censor says!

my Sony

*EDIT - I like it!

[darklightphotography]

Hi, I'm a newbie here, a bit less so as a photographer.

I have had a Glanz 160Di flash for a year or so now, and it has been a major headache. I can accept the cheap construction because it is a cheap strobe, but my unit has failed several times, and been back to Madsens a couple of times for repair. The first problem was that with the sync cable attached, even without a camera at the other end the strobe would self-trigger, sometimes machine-gun style. Next problem was the smoke and flame that came out after maybe 50 1/2 power shots in a session. They replaced this unit, but the replacement suffered the same problem. This unit they replaced the fuse and returned it as-is, partly melted case and all. Then this weekend I found the slave function no longer works.

I cannot recommend any kit that uses these strobes. I ended up buying a 300W strobe from http://stores.ebay.com.au/Envisage-IT-and-Photo, which has worked flawlessly.

Cheers - Kevin