Finally! The 5D Mark II

[DaveB]

Of course you'll want to keep the microphones away from the handling noises on the camera, and the noise of any IS/focussing in the lens!

[gstark]

I vote we get Poon to start stocking some basic audio gear,

He already does.

As long as you call high end, Class A amplifiers "basic audio gear". He has a colleague in Shenzen who does the design and manufacture. They are beautiful to behold, and the sound is extraordinary.

[padey]

I've pre-ordered one for the US.

It's looks a complete camera, combined with super fast glass = winner winner, chicken dinner.

[DaveB]

Latest delivery update: not expected in Oz for a month.
Now I have to sort out what I'm taking overseas next month instead...

Ho hum. As long as I have it before Christmas I'll be happy.

[mickeyjuice]

Latest delivery update: not expected in Oz for a month.

If it does actually show then, I'll be all over it, I reckon. Like it to be so, but who knows?

[ozimax]

I too am maneuvering to buy one (eg selling stuff to gain enough cash). Anyone for a kidney?

[mickeyjuice]

Another interesting take on the new beast: http://www.bebbblog.com/index.php?link=94&cat=7

[gstark]

Anyone for a kidney?

Your's ???? ROTFLMAO!

Hardly used, genuine, low owner, one mileage, eh?

[Grev]

Ok, after a long hard think, I've decided I'm going to convert mainly to Canon gear. Hopefully the second hand 5ds are going to flush into the market and I'll get a cheap one as a backup then the 5d2 as the primary camera.

Or if anyone have unloved 1ds2, I'll take it too.

[Ryzz]

12 minutes of FULL HD opposed to the D90’s 5 minutes of 720p. Apparently the D90’s sensor overheats around the five minute mark - what have Canon done to make such a substantial leap forward?

Apparently it is not a heat issue. Simon Joinson (the reviewer on dpreview) had this to say re: the 5 minute limit.
"We asked this question and were told it's a tax issue, nothing else. The fact you can take 5 mins, pause a second then do another 5 mins ad infinitum seems to support this."

The EU in 2006/2007 introduced a new law saying that digital cameras that can record video above a certain resolution and for a certain time period will be classified as video cameras and thus subject to higher tax.

Not doubting you goosegogs (an English expression ) but if this is true why can the Canon go for 12 minutes at 1080? One has to assume that Canon doesn’t give a flying feck for the EU

How would your typical point and shoot cameras get around this, just about every P&S does unlimited video recording. Or is this the resolution thing again?

[gstark]

12 minutes of FULL HD opposed to the D90’s 5 minutes of 720p. Apparently the D90’s sensor overheats around the five minute mark - what have Canon done to make such a substantial leap forward?

Apparently it is not a heat issue. Simon Joinson (the reviewer on dpreview) had this to say re: the 5 minute limit.
"We asked this question and were told it's a tax issue, nothing else. The fact you can take 5 mins, pause a second then do another 5 mins ad infinitum seems to support this."

The EU in 2006/2007 introduced a new law saying that digital cameras that can record video above a certain resolution and for a certain time period will be classified as video cameras and thus subject to higher tax.

Not doubting you goosegogs (an English expression ) but if this is true why can the Canon go for 12 minutes at 1080? One has to assume that Canon doesn’t give a flying feck for the EU

How would your typical point and shoot cameras get around this, just about every P&S does unlimited video recording. Or is this the resolution thing again?

I suspect that might be a yes.

[DaveB]

The PDF copy of the 5DmkII manual is now available from Canon USA's website.
HD video is limited to 4GB (approx 12 minutes depending on the way the scenes compress to MPEG). However, lower-res video can be recorded instead. The camera seems to impose a 29m59s limit, presumably for tax/etc reasons.

Meanwhile, some CR2 files from the 5DmkII were posted by Akihabara News yesterday. Processed through betas of several RAW converters they look very nice. Hopefully they'll look even nicer by the time 5DmkII support reaches non-beta software (tuning colours, etc).

Michael's in Melbourne said yesterday that they're still expecting price announcements from Canon Australia at the start of November (i.e. after Melbourne Cup Day) but that their expectation of price has gone up past AU$4k due to currency fluctuations. Their prediction of the first shipment of units is still late November. We'll have to wait and see!

[mickeyjuice]

Michael's in Melbourne said yesterday that they're still expecting price announcements from Canon Australia at the start of November (i.e. after Melbourne Cup Day) but that their expectation of price has gone up past AU$4k due to currency fluctuations. Their prediction of the first shipment of units is still late November. We'll have to wait and see!

Yeah, I got told $4400-4500. I've been promised $3999 because of my deposit. We'll see.

[mickeyjuice]

From another forum:

Aussie RRP prices just handed to me:

Body Only $4299 ~ USD 3000
24-105 kit $5799 ~ USD 4000

[petal666]

Photo Continental in Brisbane have a confirmed price of $3789 with some due in end of November. Anyone want to buy my 1D2!!

[mickeyjuice]

That's US$2550 for the body alone. http://www.photocontinental.com.au/specials14.htm

Far out.

I rang them, and they say the RRP is $4399, but "we don't do retail prices at Photocontinental".

They're expecting a shipment in two weeks, but that's sold out, and these ones are expected for delivery late December.

[mickeyjuice]

It gets better - two shops that I know of have got it at that price now (PRA just sent an email).

Just had a call from Michaels here in Melbourne.

It went basically like this.

---

Mic, good news - Canon has just released final pricing on the EOS 5Dmk2, and it's $4299. But we're setting the price at $3999, and they'll be here in a couple of weeks.

We've also got pricing on the kit, $5299 with the 24-105. Would you be interested in going up to the kit?

No, not really. I've got good lenses already. (28-70/2.8L, 70-200/2.8L IS, etc)

Well, Canon are releasing a lot more kits than bodies, therefore I can't guarantee you a body in a couple of weeks, but if you want to go up to the kit, I can definitely do you one of them in a couple of weeks.

I'm not really interested in the kit.

Well, I can't get you a body until January.

Also, $3999 isn't that big a deal - PhotoContinental and PRA are doing the camera for less than $3800.Well, no. PC put the price up this afternoon, and PRA just sent the email an hour ago.

Oh, that must have been estimated pricing, we only got the price from Canon an hour ago.

Well, no. PC put the price up this afternoon, and PRA just sent the email an hour ago.

Hmmmmm, interesting. Thanks for that information, glad to know about it.

---

Sounds like blackmail to me, frankly.

Going in tomorrow to see the bloke who sold it to me initially, and we'll see what can be done.

Admittedly, the 24-105 would be a great walkaround lens on the FF body, but it was just the way they did it that annoyed me so much. And it retails here for $1400 or so, so the kit price is hardly compelling.

Just rang PRA in Perth and they tell me I can get a body by putting down a deposit tomorrow morning, as they'll split the lens/body combination and sell the lens separately, which is perfectly sensible.

Can't get back to Michaels now as they're shut. Will talk to them again in the morning.

Ahhh, what to do.

[mickeyjuice]

It gets better - two shops that I know of have got it at that price now (PRA just sent an email).

Just had a call from Michaels here in Melbourne.

It went basically like this.

---

Mic, good news - Canon has just released final pricing on the EOS 5Dmk2, and it's $4299. But we're setting the price at $3999, and they'll be here in a couple of weeks.

We've also got pricing on the kit, $5299 with the 24-105. Would you be interested in going up to the kit?

No, not really. I've got good lenses already. (28-70/2.8L, 70-200/2.8L IS, etc)

Well, Canon are releasing a lot more kits than bodies, therefore I can't guarantee you a body in a couple of weeks, but if you want to go up to the kit, I can definitely do you one of them in a couple of weeks.

I'm not really interested in the kit.

Well, I can't get you a body until January.

Also, $3999 isn't that big a deal - PhotoContinental and PRA are doing the camera for less than $3800.Well, no. PC put the price up this afternoon, and PRA just sent the email an hour ago.

Oh, that must have been estimated pricing, we only got the price from Canon an hour ago.

Well, no. PC put the price up this afternoon, and PRA just sent the email an hour ago.

Hmmmmm, interesting. Thanks for that information, glad to know about it.

---

Sounds like blackmail to me, frankly.

Going in tomorrow to see the bloke who sold it to me initially, and we'll see what can be done.

Admittedly, the 24-105 would be a great walkaround lens on the FF body, but it was just the way they did it that annoyed me so much. And it retails here for $1400 or so, so the kit price is hardly compelling.

Just rang PRA in Perth and they tell me I can get a body by putting down a deposit tomorrow morning, as they'll split the lens/body combination and sell the lens separately, which is perfectly sensible.

Can't get back to Michaels now as they're shut. Will talk to them again in the morning.

Ahhh, what to do.

[hrpremier]

Have just been to a release tonight by the local Canon Rep, on the 5D Mk II. WOW. A real teaser and tonight did the job it was mean't to ................... "I Want One".

The presentation was informative and supported well with a 5D Mk II Body for trial along with a large range of Lenses and some outstanding prints from the A3 Cannon printer on display.

Now the hard part, getting the nod from the accountant, keeper of the currancey, She Who MUST Be Obeyed. LOL

I great paackage with some nice litlle upgrades from the previous 5D. Only thing was lack of shutter speed, 3.9 fps as compared with the 6fps on my 40D was my only gripe.

$5500 in kit form, $4300 body only, ( I think thats what they said) but if I placed a deposit tonight (Which I did not as I value my Manhood), a special price of $4000 for the body only. (I only concentrated on the special price). hehe

Its certainly got me looking around the house as to what I can flog off on evilbay though. LOL.


Jase

4869

[mickeyjuice]

$5500 in kit form, $4300 body only, ( I think thats what they said) but if I placed a deposit tonight (Which I did not as I value my Manhood), a special price of $4000 for the body only. (I only concentrated on the special price). hehe

As per the above, though, that's not a very special price.

[Aszental]

Anyone know anything about cameras direct?

They have the camera for 3785, body only.

I want to pick one up before my trip to america at the end of december, looks like everyone else is booked out.

[jdear]

hmm for the sake of actually getting this camera this year maybe Ill try and pick up a 5D kit then flog off the lense. There must be someone out there that wants a 24-105... there must be...

[mickeyjuice]

Further update:

Talked to someone different at Michaels on Wednesday morning, who told me:

a) He was expecting more bodies than kits,

b) it made sense to take the lens out of the kit in order to fill their early body-only orders,

c) they would take lenses out of kits for that purposes,

d) I am high enoughon the list that I should be fine for the first batch, and

d) he was most unhappy with the tactics employed by the other salesman in order to try and upsell.

So we'll see, I guess. They won't move from $4K, though.

[DebT]

Hi,
had an opportunity to play with a prototype at Monarto on Tuesday and while it was a raw alloy body prototype (so silver and shinny) I liked what I found - nice to handle, video much more impressive than I expected , screen really easy to read (which is a big plus as I dont need to put my reading glasses on) and all the familar functions seemed to be in the same spot. Unfortunately they weren't letting anyone use their own CF's so unable to take images away but I've had enough of a play to know I'll be saving my money .
Deb T

[DebT]

Had a hands on with the Mk 11 with the Canon rep at Monarto Tuesday and was impressed by the colour & clarity and really love the new screen - I can see everything quite clearly without the reading glasses which is a nice change, and the zoom really shows just how crisp your focus spot was (quite an improvement from my 40D when Ineed to see it on the laptop before I am 100% certain)

Was also in the right place at lunch today and tried the video function again - did a great job with the auto focus on face recognition and the HD playback was quite impressive ...only catch is when you download the .mov format it does not suppot HD so true HD is from Camera to screen via cable - or direct from card only but still a nice gimmick and at 14 mins is much longer than the Nikon. It also corrected the exposure quite nicely when the subjects moved sun to shade and generally was pretty terrific with the moving traffic. Started to look at a few of the other features and like the battery memory and charge function with remaining shots indicatior which could be a handy thing and the new battery has a much longer life. Played with the 'in process' adjustment for vingetting and think that will be handy for the xwide stuff.

Recommend you have a serious look and try it out if anyone is considering a change although getting hold of one in the next few weeks could be a bit tricky.
Deb T

[DaveB]

...only catch is when you download the .mov format it does not suppot HD so true HD is from Camera to screen via cable - or direct from card only but still a nice gimmick

Huh? The .mov files are HD 1080. At least the sample files I've seen are (e.g. the ones from Vincent L). Are you sure it wasn't a problem with the software you were using not being able to handle the H.264 codec? Or something like that? Even Final Cut Express on my MacBook can handle them.

[DaveB]

I also spoke to a rep at Michaels on Wednesday, who told me:

1. Two deliveries expected: one late Nov, one mid Dec.
2. I ordered way more than 3 weeks ago from them, but am now being told that there probably won't be enough bodies (vs. kits) in the initial delivery for me (I already have the 24-105mm).
   They should have a body for me by mid-late December though. Obviously they can't commit to dates at this point and may be being overly-cautious, but with my Antarctic trip immediately after Christmas that makes me a bit nervous.
3. No mention of splitting kits was made.

In fact no-one seems to be sure yet whether the 5D2 premium kit (the one with the 24-105) will be a box containing two brown boxes, or an integrated box that's harder to physically split.

Michaels are only my backup plan though: I'm reasonably confident of getting a body through a different supplier in November. They've suggested they'll split a kit if necessary for me. They've also indicated that the price will be lower than Michaels' (significantly, and without me asking). Hopefully I'll be cancelling my Michaels order at that point, which will presumably make the next person down Michaels' list happy...

[Aszental]

Went into Michaels today, asked about the 5d Mark II.

The guy told me that i would have to put down a 20% depost, and order today to be guaranteed one by the end of december. I need one by the 23rd of dec, but they couldn't tell me when.

Then i asked about the restocking fee, if they couldnt meet it by that date. The guys were basically making one up on the spot, they had no idea, one guy said 50, the other said $300.

Walked into JB camera store next door.

Asked the guy, he said it was $3800, then he looked on the computer and saw that it was actually $3900, but was really nice and kept the $3800 price. He said that canon will be increasing there prices by 20% at the end of the year.

5 people in line in front of me, but he called the head office and said that JB is guaranteed at least 15 bodies. So should have no problem getting it.

All in all $3800, plus i get 10% back when i go overseas.

Quite a good deal.

[DaveB]

Well, the camera has started getting to customers in Beijing.
It can't be too much longer until the first ones appear here (this coming week?).

[mickeyjuice]

Well, the camera has started getting to customers in Beijing.
It can't be too much longer until the first ones appear here (this coming week?).

Well, apparently. The lack of test images from the supposed purchaser is VERY weird, though.

And I can now resume my fight with the host of different story-tellers at Michaels, I guess. I'm very tempted to just tell them to give me back my deposit, move the next bloke up on the list and buy a used Mk3.

[mickeyjuice]

And I can now resume my fight with the host of different story-tellers at Michaels, I guess.

It was fun last week when they were insisting that there was no way that JB could have sold any, when I had seen pics of it on charge

I'm very tempted to just tell them to give me back my deposit, move the next bloke up on the list and buy a used Mk3.

Which I'm testing and hopefully buying on Friday in Perth...

[mickeyjuice]

Second batch has arrived in Perth as of this morning.

Still no word from Michaels. They're really living up to this "we've got a special relationship with Canon" thing. Pretty much like I'VE got a 'special relationship' with some ex-girlfriends.

[photoaffinity]

Well after hassling the poor guys at vanbar for weeks now, i finally got a call today that my kit has come in and is ready to be collected.

the kicker?

I left my phone at home!

Hopefully i can swing by first thing tomorrow to pick it up.

[DaveB]

Apparently mine is on a truck on its way to my dealer for Monday (it's in regional Vic). But I'll find out for sure on Monday...
I'll be happy if it's true: I've got a job at the end of next week that a FF body will be perfect for. However, we're still waiting on RRS to produce an L-plate for the camera. I've got my fingers crossed that they can get some here before New Year's Eve (I leave for a month's travel just after) but there's a chance it just mightn't happen in time.

My understanding is that the batch that turned up in Perth on the 3rd (Wed) was from the same shipment that arrived in the eastern capitals the previous Friday (i.e. the first batch). I think Canon ships them by road to the west.

[mickeyjuice]

Still no word from Michaels. I'm looking forward to going in and getting my deposit back.

[DaveB]

Michaels called me on Monday to keep me up to date on progress. Have they not been calling you?

I too have an order with Michaels for a body, but they seem to have had very few of them in so far: I know I didn't start out at the top of their list. My brother-in-law had a kit order with them which got filled a week ago. As soon as I know my other camera has come through I'll be getting my deposit back from Michaels.

I do have another order with Michaels which I'll be leaving in place for now: they've said they can get me two batteries and an Eg-D focussing screen.

[aim54x]

Broadway Camera House took delivery of two of them some time this week. I can confirm that the Kit comes in ONE box. The guys at Broadway took apart one kit and filled a body only order today. There should be more units in the pipeline I have been told.

[mickeyjuice]

Michaels called me on Monday to keep me up to date on progress. Have they not been calling you?

They rang last week to tell me that they didn't have a body for me, but that they'd have one at some stage. Really?

Fair to say I don't believe a thing they say anymore.

[gstark]

Michaels called me on Monday to keep me up to date on progress. Have they not been calling you?

They rang last week to tell me that they didn't have a body for me, but that they'd have one at some stage. Really?

Fair to say I don't believe a thing they say anymore.

I dunno about that: it seems fairly plausible to me that they might have a body for you ... at some stage.

That this "some stage" might be three years into the future is probably not ideal in terms of your expectations, however.

[mickeyjuice]

Michaels called me on Monday to keep me up to date on progress. Have they not been calling you?

They rang last week to tell me that they didn't have a body for me, but that they'd have one at some stage. Really?

Fair to say I don't believe a thing they say anymore.

I dunno about that: it seems fairly plausible to me that they might have a body for you ... at some stage.

That this "some stage" might be three years into the future is probably not ideal in terms of your expectations, however.

See, that's the problem - I'm at the stage where I'm not even believing that any more when it comes from them

[chrisk]

See, that's the problem - I'm at the stage where I'm not even believing that any more when it comes from them

we're so used to it we were never under the dellusion you could believe them in the first place.

[mickeyjuice]

See, that's the problem - I'm at the stage where I'm not even believing that any more when it comes from them

we're so used to it we were never under the dellusion you could believe them in the first place.

I had a dealer in Perth that I could trust (PRA Imaging) so it was a bit of a shock to be lied to so blatantly, I will admit.

[gstark]

Michaels called me on Monday to keep me up to date on progress. Have they not been calling you?

They rang last week to tell me that they didn't have a body for me, but that they'd have one at some stage. Really?

Fair to say I don't believe a thing they say anymore.

I dunno about that: it seems fairly plausible to me that they might have a body for you ... at some stage.

That this "some stage" might be three years into the future is probably not ideal in terms of your expectations, however.

See, that's the problem - I'm at the stage where I'm not even believing that any more when it comes from them

Not quite.

The problem, really, is that you believed the promise of a salesperson.

[gstark]

I had a dealer in Perth that I could trust

Sorry. No such thing.

[chrisk]

The problem, really, is that you believed the promise of a salesperson.

the flip side to that...

2 weeks ago ECS told me the 50/1.4G would be here by end of the following week, (yesterday). on thursday morning i rang nikon sales and asked "do you have an anticipated date of arrival for the 1.4G." their response was that there are none in the country and the first shipment would be arriving on Sunday, (tomorrow), and will start being distributed next week so should be available in retail stores week commencing 22nd.

ECS rang me yesterday morning and said, "we've got a box of 1.4G's here, come get one."

whats the moral to this story ?

if a salesman cant be trusted...then how low must Nikon be down that food chain ? lol

[mickeyjuice]

I had a dealer in Perth that I could trust

Sorry. No such thing.

I've never had an issue with PRA. Ever.

[gstark]

if a salesman cant be trusted...then how low must Nikon be down that food chain ? lol

Chris,

That's actually quite a serious question, and it raises a couple of points.

In the past, I've been told that Nikon Oz have little input into the stocks that that they receive, and that they have little visibility into any stock supplies that are actually in transit either. This also translates into the pricing regime that's in place. I've been told this a number of times by different individuals with varying levels of seniority within NA, and while I wasn't quite told exactly this at last week's D3X launch, a similar message was evident.

The second part of this relates to the "level of seniority" that I referred to above. What is the true level of seniority of the people with whom I'm conversing? I don't profess to know NA's internal structures, so I cannot answer that question, but I think we can, with equal conviction, ask a similar question of the sales staff of any store, and probably, wrt many of those staff, come up with an even less authoritative response.

My experience with many salespeople is that they're ego driven, and for some strange reason they're scared to say "I don't know". Rather, they will make up an answer. Call it bullshit if you like: I certainly would. I wonder why so many salespeople have credibility issues?

[photohiker]

Having had to operate on the other side of this particular fence (different industry), I can understand both sides of the story.

When popular items are out of stock and the backorder list is as long as your arm, some of your customers are going to really, really, badger you for stock. They think you have some stock hidden under the counter and they try to get it. Others try and push their way to the front of the queue by calling in favours or creating elaborate reasons why they need the object early. Others become downright rude. If the item is the latest whizz-bang product, some of the customers will have it on order with multiple retailers, and the first one to show up with the goods gets the sale.

Often, the supply of said article is in the hands of someone other than the salesman's company or even the local distributor. They might be in a crate on their way through an indeterminate freight/customs/transport system which can get bogged down with delays and misdirections for a thousand different reasons.

The salesman's 'job' in these circumstances is to avoid 'losing' as many of the sales as possible. Often, it is impossible to give an answer that the customer is going to be happy with, because that answer doesn't exist. I agree that some salesmen step over the edge. Bear in mind that none of them can satisfy the conflicting demands placed on them by their various customers, management and suppliers whilst there is limited stock.

Personally, those that made real pains of themselves during the wait period never got the preferential service they wanted from me, because they weren't the kind of customer we wanted to encourage. They probably will have weaselled their way up the queue at some other outlet anyway, so the likelihood of making the sale with them was smaller than average. The worst of them had their orders cancelled - we called that 'sacking a customer', and it was one of the few opportunities to extract cool calculated revenge on these pressure merchants.

So spare a thought for these guys, they have to take a lot of crap at times.

[mickeyjuice]

When popular items are out of stock and the backorder list is as long as your arm, some of your customers are going to really, really, badger you for stock.

Maybe that's what I should have done, rather than just leaving them alone...

[photohiker]

When popular items are out of stock and the backorder list is as long as your arm, some of your customers are going to really, really, badger you for stock.

Maybe that's what I should have done, rather than just leaving them alone...

Maybe. Not if I was your salesman As a customer, I think it's hard to know what to do the first time in that situation. You might have a better idea what to do next time though. If I thought my supplier was granting favours that pushed my order down the queue, I'd find another supplier next time. Very hard to verify though.

Michael