Lightroom and Profiles - I see the light

[ATJ]

I have been on journey of enlightenment over the last couple of weeks and I thought I'd share.

Thanks to Mr Stubbs, I started using Lightroom in February. Peter did a very compelling demonstration at Leon's and the meet we had and I was amazed at the simplicity of the workflow. I had been using ViewNX, CaptureNX and PaintShopPro 9 which did a good job on the images but was quite clumsy. The two Nikon applications are also memory hogs and even with 2GB of memory in my PC, things were grinding to a halt very quickly. Lightroom had just about everything in the one package and included cataloging and keywording which I wanted but was too difficult with the other tools.

While Lightroom was wonderful for just about the whole process, I really disliked its default processing of raw images. Certainly, the capabilities of the raw processing in Lightroom are really no less that CaptureNX (and probably other tools), but my images looked like crap on import. I struggled with this for some time and eventually went with shooting raw+JPEG so I could at least see the potential of the shots. I'm not saying that the JPEGs are correct or even the best possible, just that they were better with what I got from the default with Lightroom.

Along comes Lightroom 2, which introduces Profiles for ACR (and the profiles can be used in ACR with Photoshop, too). I thought this would solve my problems and I could finally get rid of the JPEGs. Well, they made very little difference which disappointed me greatly. My images were still flat. I gave up on them and continued with the process I had devised nearly 8 months ago.

I kept hearing how good the profiles were. This time I thought, maybe I could create my own and that way they would do exactly what I want. I bought myself a ColorChecker chart, took a shot and ran it through the chart wizard in the DNG Profile Editor and used it in Lightroom. My images were still flat. I thought the problem was that I needed a different tone curve in the profile and started to ask how to do that. I was shot down in flames. That's not how profiles are meant to work. But I still couldn't work out why my images were so flat.

I ended up creating a tone curve in Lightroom that gave me pretty good results. Using the Tone curve plus the appropriate beta profile made the NEF file look very similar to the JPEG - which was what I wanted as it meant I could just work with the NEFs, knowing they could look at least as good as the JPEG and in most cases made to look better.

The folks on the Adobe User to User forum were confused as to why I needed to go to all that trouble. The profiles should work with the Lightroom defaults. It was then that I realised that I had blown away the defaults way back in March because I didn't like them. I got the defaults back, applied the "Camera Neutral beta 2" profile and "Hey, presto!", the converted NEF is almost identical to the JPEG - much better than I had achieved with the tone curve.

So, for those Nikon people that have tried Lightroom but have been disappointed with how there raw images look, there is a solution. Using the profile that is appropriate to the camera settings you are using, plus the Lightroom defaults will make your NEF files look (almost) exactly as they do in ViewNX and CaptureNX.

Again, let me say, I'm not saying the camera rendered JPEGs or the results with CaptureNX are necessarily "correct", but for those people that like them, being able to get the equivalent in Lightroom is a great bonus.

[kiwi]

I share a similar frustration, can I ask where you get and how you apply the "Camera Neutral beta 2" profile

Thanks

[ATJ]

Darren,

Thanks for reminding me. I meant to put the link in and forgot.

Just about everything you need is available from here: DNG Profiles

Just to get the camera profiles, just Download camera profiles beta 2 (updated October 22, 2008) and install them. By default they go to a directory/folder that Lightroom knows to look in. Restart Lightroom and in the Develop module, at the very bottom of the right panel you'll see "Camera Calibration". Just select the profile you want from there. I have my D300 set up with a Picture Control of Neutral so I chose the Neutral profile (which is in beta 2). There are a number of other profiles there and they are specific to the camera.

[kiwi]

Thanks, have loaded and done that. Seems to work a OK.

[grandmacpubah]

Thanks for sharing that info...the new profiles are almost dead on...very very close and waaaaay better than before. I think I can legitimately start using lightroom now.

[PiroStitch]

sweet! thanks for sharing that info. Just finished a shoot last night and wasn't happy with the way LR was showing the photos. Will try again tonight when I get back.

[kiwi]

http://www.onethirdstop.com is worth looking at too

[W00DY]

Just on this note...

I am not sure if there is a better way but to apply these Profiles to your RAW files on import you need to create a preset (which only changes the profile and nothing else) and then apply the preset on import.

[ATJ]

I am not sure if there is a better way but to apply these Profiles to your RAW files on import you need to create a preset (which only changes the profile and nothing else) and then apply the preset on import.

Set the profile you want as the default and then you can import with a preset of None.

[PiroStitch]

Holy cow at the difference that it made!!!

[W00DY]

I am not sure if there is a better way but to apply these Profiles to your RAW files on import you need to create a preset (which only changes the profile and nothing else) and then apply the preset on import.

Set the profile you want as the default and then you can import with a preset of None.

How do you set the profile as a default? Also that would work if you always shoot in the same profile but maybe the preset option would be easier if you change between say Standard and Vivid in camera (However saying that I guess you can just do it in Lightroom!!!)

They are heaps better but does anyone else find them making skin tones too red/pink? How do you adjust this in Lightroom? Do you use the HSL sliders?

A.

[ATJ]

How do you set the profile as a default?

(Assuming you are on Windows...) In the develop module, set one photograph the way you want it. Hold the Alt key. "Reset" changes to "Set Default...". Click that and the "Update to Current Settings".

Also that would work if you always shoot in the same profile but maybe the preset option would be easier if you change between say Standard and Vivid in camera (However saying that I guess you can just do it in Lightroom!!!)

Changing the settings in the camera won't make any difference to Lightroom, but if you want Vivid, just choose that profile.

They are heaps better but does anyone else find them making skin tones too red/pink? How do you adjust this in Lightroom? Do you use the HSL sliders?

Or create another profile that handles skin tones the way you want. A ColorChecker chart would help with that.

[christiand]

Thank you ATJ,
for the information abot LR2 and profiles - very usefull

CD

[lukeo]

Posts like these remind me why I love these forums, even if I don't visit as often as I used to. Thank you!

[brocot]

Thank You for this information,.
The difference is fabulous

one more

[seeto.centric]

hi guys,
just a little question..
since both LR2 and photoshop CS3 use the same ACR 4.6 or whatever it is, does that also mean that the camera profiles will work pretty much the same in CS3?

cheers,
-julian

[ATJ]

since both LR2 and photoshop CS3 use the same ACR 4.6 or whatever it is, does that also mean that the camera profiles will work pretty much the same in CS3?

Yes. The profiles are a feature of ACR.