What to go for

[iains]

Ok new here so be gentle please.

Fancy a Dslr and have been searching the interweb looking at various makes,models e.t.c

I don't really have a clue about all the specs e.t.c of the cameras but i want a good slr that i can learn on and will not need to upgrade for a while e.g.Years!

I got around £450 (aus $1055?) to spend (well from the wife for Christmas) top of my thoughts are 450d but not sure about lenses e.t.c the kit lense or buy body only and get a lense.

will be using camera to take pics of my kids and also some of the beautiful scenery we have here in scotland if this helps with thoughts on lenses e.t.c

Thanks for your help in advance!


Iain

[ATJ]

G'day Iain,

Welcome to dSLRUsers.

I'm a Nikon user and don't know a lot about Canon. If you were going for a Nikon, I'd recommend getting the kit lens. They are pretty good and will give you something with a wide enough range until you get a better idea of what you want to do with the camera. If, over time, you find the kit lens lacking, you'll be in a better position to know what is lacking and be able to buy more lenses to fill the gaps.

As far as the body is concerned, try to keep an open mind at the moment and go into a camera store and try each of the bodies (both Canon and Nikon). See how they feel in your hand. Are they too large or too small? How easy are the controls? Can you find your way around the menus? For some reason some people seem to have an affinity to Canon while others prefer Nikon - and I don't mean from the perspective of a pissing contest. Remember, once you choose a body, you will be pretty much stuck with it, or its successor. i.e. if you go Canon now, you're more likely to stick with Canon as you will have lenses and other accessories.

[Mr Darcy]

At this stage, ignore the Specs. They will all take good to excellent photos.
ce
Get to a Camera store and play with the cameras. The right one to buy is the one that feels right in your hands. This is a very personal decision, and can only be made by you. My wife and I use quite different cameras because we have different hands. We use the same brand though, so we can share lenses & other accessories. Actually, the body is the accessory, not the lens, but you know what I mean.

The next most important thing is: Are the controls in a sensible place? Do the menus make sense to you? Again very personal decisions. Make them with one in your hands. Take your own memory card to the store with you. Take some photos. Just in the store will be fine. Take them home and look at them.

On Specs. Ignore Megapixels. This seems to be the selling point on Digital Cameras. But remember that to get twice the resolution, you need FOUR times the pixel count. To get a camera twice as good (in resolution terms) as a10MP camera, all other things being equal, you would need a 40MP camera. Not too many of those around are there? YOu also need to keep in mind that as MP goes up, noise (Think film grain) also goes up unless the sensor size also goes up. Most SLRs use roughly the same size sensor. The exceptions here are the top end offerings from Nikon and Canon, but these are well out of your price range. Noise particularly affect low light photography. So this will limit your photography severely on those short winter days in Scotland. Fast (Expensive) glass can help to some extent. This is also where DSLRs shine over cheaper cameras. Most Point & Shoot cameras use small sensors, so noise is quite bad even if they have good lenses (Rare).

[aim54x]

At this stage, ignore the Specs. They will all take good to excellent photos.
Get to a Camera store and play with the cameras. The right one to buy is the one that feels right in your hands. This is a very personal decision, and can only be made by you.

Yep

The next most important thing is: Are the controls in a sensible place? Do the menus make sense to you? Again very personal decisions. Make them with one in your hands. Take your own memory card to the store with you. Take some photos. Just in the store will be fine. Take them home and look at them.

Great advice there, and most shops will not object to this.

On Specs. Ignore Megapixels. This seems to be the selling point on Digital Cameras....keep in mind that as MP goes up, noise (Think film grain) also goes up unless the sensor size also goes up. Most SLRs use roughly the same size sensor....Noise particularly affect low light photography. So this will limit your photography severely on those short winter days in Scotland. Fast (Expensive) glass can help to some extent. This is also where DSLRs shine over cheaper cameras. Most Point & Shoot cameras use small sensors, so noise is quite bad even if they have good lenses (Rare).

Again great info and advice. Just as adding to this, have a look at IS (image stabilised lenses - Canon) and VR (Vibration Reduction lenses - Nikon) as they are becoming readily available in kit lenses and will help out in low light. I just took the liberty to have a look at Jessop's website and found that 450D and 1000D area available with IS lenses under your budget, as it the D60. So I think if you shop around you may be able to get a 1000D twin IS or a D60 Twin VR kit (both these kits will have a 18-55 IS/VR and a 55-200 VR or a 55-250 IS) as these are just over AU$1000 at the moment.

Also, keep in mind to keep a little money to aside to purchase a good bag to carry it all in, and some memory cards if you do not already have some. Filters are also a good idea.

[gstark]

Hi, Ian, and welcome.

You live in a wonderful part of the world, with lots of great scenery to photograph.

In terms of your purchase, you've been given some great advice. Get thyself to a camera store and play. Take your time, noting the advice that's been given. Try to ignore a salesperson pushing you one way or another: the important issue here is what feels best, for you, in your hands. The salesperson's commission is irrelevant.

As noted above, both brands will help you to produce great images. Megapixel numbers do not really matter at all.

And yes, just stay with the recommended kit lens.

Good luck, and enjoy.

[iains]

Thanks all for the Excellent advise! I will get myself along to a camera shop and try some out before i guide my wife in the direction i would like.

I did notice that you mentioned the 1000d over the 450d is this just cause the twin lense kit is cheaper or do you think the spec differences are negligible for a beginner like myself?


One thing i'd like to be able to do is shots like this...

always wanted a camera that could do that since i saw a pic in a car mag of the same car 8 times driving up a road!



Thanks


Iain

[gstark]

Iain,

Can you say "photoshop" ?

That sort of image, out of the camera, is impossible to achieve. It's a composite of several images. To help you to make those images you would need something more than an entry level camera. More than a pro level camera.

You need skill.

Experience helps, but skill is the prime requisite here.

A reasonable frame rate on the camera, and a good solid tripod would help.

But skill is the prime requisite.

[aim54x]

Skill is the prime need here!!!

On the topic of the EOS1000D, you dont really sacrifice too much (a few MP, bigger screen)
http://www.dslrusers.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=34410
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1000d/page2.asp

[iains]

What general use does the 18-55mm lens have over say a 70-300mm lens like the ones in the twin lense kit.
Obviously it depends on the f3.5-5.5 e.t.c.(don't have a clue about apertures yet )

**EDIT** Just looked on Wiki at aperture stuff and now understand it abit more,Lower the number e.g f1.4 means bigger the opening and the more of the detail,light e.t.c you get into the camera. Thus the lower the better?.

Would it be better buying camera with just the kit lens then buying say a canon lens at a later date and what limits would the standard kit lens have on the spectrum of photographs i could take?

Is Tamron a good enough make as that seems to be the one you get in twin lens kits

Plus i am gonna pop up to Perth to have a touch and feel of some cameras on Saturday as suggested! (Perth in Scotland )

[ATJ]

What general use does the 18-55mm lense have over say a 70-300mm lense like the ones in the twin lense kit.

An 18-55mm lens is going to let you photograph larger subjects while being closer to them. A 70-300mm lens will let you photograph smaller objects, further away. For example, if you wanted to take a photograph of your house, you'd use the 18-55mm and zoom to around 18mm and then you could stand at the curb and take the photograph. With the 70-300mm, even at 70mm, you'd probably have to be down the street some ways. Now, if you wanted to photograph a robin, the 70-300mm at 300mm would mean you could be 20 metres away and still have it fairly large in the photograph.

For taking photos of the kids and beautiful scenery, the 18-55mm lens will be more useful.

Obviously it depends on the f3.5-5.5 e.t.c.(dont have a clue about apetures yet )

Without going into the detail of f/stops, the smaller the number on the lens, the better that lens will be in low light situations.

Would it be better buying camera with just the kit lense then buying say a canon lense at a later date and what limits would the standard kit lense have on the spectrum of photographs i could take?

Yes. You won't really know what limits you have until you start taking photographs. The 18-55mm will be pretty good for kids and scenery. Once you start using it, you may find that you need to get wider (fit more in than you can) so you might buy a wider angle lens. You may find you can't get close enough, so you'd buy a longer lens.

Is Tamron a good enough make as that seems to be the one you get in twin lense kits

Not as good as it used to be.

Plus i am gonna pop up to perth to have a touch and feel of some cameras on Saturday as suggested! (perth in scotland )

My great great grandfather came from near Methuen in Perthshire.

[iains]

Plus i am gonna pop up to perth to have a touch and feel of some cameras on Saturday as suggested! (perth in scotland )

My great great grandfather came from near Methven in Perthshire.

Know it well Its on the road from Perth to Crieff!



Thanks for the speedy reply!

Just one other thing. I will be going to some car racing and rallying at Knockhill race circuit just about 20miles down the road from me and also going to some rally events in nearby forests so would the 18-55mm lens be fine for this and just a case of changing shutter speeds e.t.c? playing with settings and what not.

[chrisk]

just cant beat the canon bodies for value for money at the moment. the xsi is a great little camera if you can stand the way it feels. i'd be more inclined to look at a 40d though. i dont think theres a better value dslr on the market right now.

[ATJ]

Just one other thing. I will be going to some car racing and rallying at Knockhill race circuit just about 20miles down the road from me and also going to some rally events in nearby forests so would the 18-55mm lens be fine for this and just a case of changing shutter speeds e.t.c? playing with settings and what not.

I guess it all depends on how close to the action you get. If it is the way Clarkeson portrays in his test of the latest Evo and WRX STI (i.e. with the cars almost touching the spectators), then the 18-55mm lens would be perfect. If, however, it is like the track races we get here in Oz, where you can't get all that close to the cars, the 70-300mm would be a much better option. Again it is all about size and proximity. The closer you get and/or the larger the subject, the wider the lens needs to be. But if you can't get close, you use a longer lens to bring the subject closer.

[aim54x]

On the topic of the Tamron 70-300mm, I own and use one on my D300 and have found that although it is not as good as I like it, after looking at the AF-D 70-300mm (cheap kit lens) and the EF 75-300mm (cheap Canon kit lens used a 40D) I have found little difference if not a slightly superior image from the Tamron. It is a lens that is not worth raving about, but has proven to be useful. If you do buy Canon then maybe try to go for the EF 55-250mm IS that has a pretty reputation (I have not been able to use one so I cant confirm).

[iains]

Well i went for a canon eos450d with 18-55 IS kit lens,
I bought it from ebay brand new and sealed because i was given a 20% off from ebay on any purchase with paypal.

So trawled the listings for days will i found a guy selling one for 375gbp so i snapped one up (he had 5) so got the camera for 300gbp and 10gbp postage as i got the 20% discount off the camera and not the postage cost.

Total bargain i think! camera arrived sealed, got to take a look make sure it was all looking fine and things there that should be before the wife took it off me and said its getting wrapped till christmas day! Cant wait to get playing with it!!!