Snake identification please

[Mr Darcy]

It's been a bad day for wildlife in our backyard.

This morning we discovered a dead blue tongue trapped in the birdnet. It had been dead a while as the maggots were in force.
THen this afternoon, Pam came in to say another was caught. I checked. It was a snake, but I'm not good at these, all I could say was that it was an Elapid (even that I am not sure of) & therefore probably poisonous. While it had only been there a couple of hours, it too was dead so we disengaged it from the net and I took some photos then buried it.

For reference I would like to know what it is:
We have a firm policy of live & let live at home, so it is really a matter of knowing just how careful we need to be.

[ATJ]

Greg,

I'm no expert, but I believe that is a king brown snake, Pseudechis australis. They are very dangerous. I thumbed through the keys in Coggar (1992), and the scales on the face seem to match for Pseudechis and I don't believe it is one of the other species.

You guys be very careful.

[foonji]

Poor lil bugga

[Matt. K]

That bird net is good stuff.

[blacknstormy]

Greg - showed the photo to Damian and he agrees with Andrew - I know you've buried it, but if you come across a dead snake (and make sure that it really is dead), a belly shot is a good idea for id - the browns and taipans have purply-pink paired spots on the ventral scales ...
and I agree - be very very careful... not something nice to be bitten by. These guys actually feed on other snakes and can get bloody big !!!

[foonji]

speaking of dead brown snakes....back in the good ol days in Adelaide on the property came across a browny (lets just say it died of heart attack) I hung it up on the fence for it to decompose so i could collect its skeleton... however Mr.Rufus (being the farm cat) decided that he would take it and do a runner and have this fine delicacy... so there went my skeleton! This cat I swear was also invincible.. on numerous occasions i witness it taking direct strikes from red bellies and brownys and didn't think twice about it and powered on no problems... one time it was a baby red belly (babies have more venom and deadlier) and rufus copped it on the lip.

So moral of the story, My cat was SuperCat and these stunts should not be tried at home.

[BBJ]

Well to me the only good snake is a dead one.

[aim54x]

Great pics, shame about the snake, I am glad that you were careful about it.

Arent cats better able to cope with some venoms?

[Mr Darcy]

I know you've buried it, but if you come across a dead snake (and make sure that it really is dead)

Believe me, I was.
After we found it, we left it alone for a couple of hours. It hadn't moved in that time, so I prodded with the proverbial 10 foot pole (3.6m actually). No movement. Left it another hour and saw some ants crawling on it. Then, and only then, I chopped it in two with a spade. I cut the netting away with some scissors, then removed the rear half, then used a shovel to remove the head end. At that point I put the head on the ground to take three of the photos, then used the shovel again to carry it to the hole.

It did have purplish marks on the underside. I thought that was just bruising.
King Brown eh... I'd have thought we were out of their range. Too cold. It snows most winters. We are at 900m. Still will treat all snakes we see with even greater caution now. We are on a bush block & see several every year when they come in for water. We just keep a careful eye on them and make sure we make lots of noise.

What we need to do now is work out a way to net the fruit trees without pinning the netting to the ground. If we don't the ^#$%*&^% bower birds get in and take everything. (We leave one or two trees un-netted for their benefit)

[Big Red]

perhaps you could run a strip of flywire around the bottom of the net

I know you've buried it, but if you come across a dead snake (and make sure that it really is dead)

Believe me, I was.
After we found it, we left it alone for a couple of hours. It hadn't moved in that time, so I prodded with the proverbial 10 foot pole (3.6m actually). No movement. Left it another hour and saw some ants crawling on it. Then, and only then, I chopped it in two with a spade. I cut the netting away with some scissors, then removed the rear half, then used a shovel to remove the head end. At that point I put the head on the ground to take three of the photos, then used the shovel again to carry it to the hole.

It did have purplish marks on the underside. I thought that was just bruising.
King Brown eh... I'd have thought we were out of their range. Too cold. It snows most winters. We are at 900m. Still will treat all snakes we see with even greater caution now. We are on a bush block & see several every year when they come in for water. We just keep a careful eye on them and make sure we make lots of noise.

What we need to do now is work out a way to net the fruit trees without pinning the netting to the ground. If we don't the ^#$%*&^% bower birds get in and take everything. (We leave one or two trees un-netted for their benefit)

[MATT]

You can buy snake netting similar to bird netting, the only problem it is designed to catch the snake. So you still have to "relocate" it once found.BigReds idea sounds like it has promise.

i like in CQ on 40 acres of farm land with large amounts of tall grass(when it rains) and snake are very common here. Not unusual to see between 5-10 browns a year at the front steps. i cant say I'm a fan of them adn I worry about me small children. they are taught to check things in the yard before playing.

The ones that die of heart attacks here go on the meat ant nests, but usually the hawks take them quickly.

Thanks for these images , reminds me its time to clean out the shed.

MATT

[ATJ]

OK, I've had another look through the key in Coggar and I may have got the genus wrong and I now think it is Pseudonaja. This would make it P. textilis, eastern brown snake. This makes a lot more sense from a distribution perspective. it is also a more dangerous snake. These guys are very aggressive and there was a death just last year from one.

[Mr Darcy]

OK, I've had another look through the key in Coggar and I may have got the genus wrong and I now think it is Pseudonaja. This would make it P. textilis, eastern brown snake. This makes a lot more sense from a distribution perspective. it is also a more dangerous snake. These guys are very aggressive and there was a death just last year from one.

Gee you're full of joy aren't you Andrew.
Do you know if these are aggressive all the time?, or just the mating season (like magpies)

As mentioned earlier we see a few snakes every year, and while we are v. cautious when we know they are about; Our "don't bother them and they won't bother us" policy has been working well so far. It works on the Magpies too. They respect us even in the mating season. It's not uncommon to see Pam weeding with a Maggie nearby feeding on the grubs. PS Haven't forgotten that image posting issue. Just haven't been at MY computer to do the needed post.

[chrisk]

isnt that the most dangerous snake on earth ??

[Raskill]

Hehehe,
A dead snake is a good snake. I live 35 km's from medical help, so anything that comes near my house is fair game for shovels, heavy sticks, shotguns etc.

We had a 2.5 metre king brown in the garden not long ago. I didn't get a chance to make it die from a 'heart attack', but it scared the bejaysus out of my two gardeners both of whom were very cautious after seeing it.

[ATJ]

Greg,
It is my understanding that they are potentially aggressive pretty much all year around, however, being "cold blooded" means their activity levels will be heavily influenced by ambient temperature. If it is cold, they are going to be a lot slower and you may see them sunning themselves to get enough heat to be active. The sunning itself can be quite effective and so they may be active on a cold day after an hour or so in the sun. They will potentially be more active on a warm day and that may be when they are the most aggressive. Hot days may be too much for them and so they will stay out of the sun.

Chris,
I guess it depends on the definition of "dangerous". It was my understanding that the inland taipan had more deadly venom and that they were more aggressive, however, inland taipans don't occur much around civilisation and so the chances of an encounter are far rarer. Eastern browns are not uncommon in built up areas and so encounters are more likely making them more dangerous in terms of bites/deaths per year. The one from last year wasn't far from Blacktown. We got eastern browns around our place in Middle Cove (Sydney's north shore) when I was growing up. While cobras in India have less potent venom (I believe), encounters are very frequent and so they may be considered more dangerous.

[Mr Darcy]

A dead snake is a good snake.

I can't agree. Among other things, the snakes keep down the vermin. We would be over run with mice without them
Refer to Glory Road - Robert Heinlein for an interesting read on this philosophy p158 of 294 pages in my copy. He is talking about dragons , but the principle is the same.

Also most deaths by snakebite in Australia have occurred either when the "victim" was either actively trying to kill it or simply absent-mindedly stepped on it.

There has NEVER been a documented death from a King Brown bite (despite it being the very venomous according to the LD50 test). If you continue to chase and kill them, you may well be the first.

I wish I could say the same about the Eastern Brown which Andrew now thinks mine is.
Still only about 1 death per year. Better odds than going for a drive. Cars. Now there's something to be exterminated.

Refer to http://members.iinet.net.au/~bush/myth.html for more info.

[bigsarg7]

Wow, can't say i'd get that close to photography a snake even if it was dead! I'm the kind of person who avoids the reptile section at the zoo's!
Where i live, there are two snakes you see very often, and both are very dangerous-Brown Snake and the Tiger snake- These frighten the bejeebies out of me! From your pictures i'd say that its a brown snake, southern or king, it doesn't matter they are very dangerous and i'd have to say i was glad it got caught in the net, i'm not a fan of killing snakes in their habitat but around here you just can't risk it being on our property.
My niece was bitten about 4 years back when she was a little under 2 years old, by a brown and she got very very sick, and it was a baby brown. Another relative of mine walked out her front door to go into town (she lived in town though) and as she walked down the step she stood on a tiger snake and got extremely sick, not to say the fright alone would have killed me! Both recovered but have now got a Compulsary Disorder of checking steps and back yards.
Snakes are simply dangerous around here, and if i had found that snake in my yard i'd be extremly cautious as when there is one, there are often more then one!! you've found the unlucky one, or as i'd say you got lucky finding it in the nets and not at your door step or even inside your house!! (animal plannet often have stories of browns inside peoples houses on and under couches and in beds....now thats just frightened me so i'm gonna shut up now!!)

Point of my jargen is.......please be extra extra vigilant, i love animals too, but they are too dangerous and aggressive to trust so if seen, make em have a heart attack!! or call in an expert ASAP to catch and release it somewhere safe.

Thanks for listening to my jargen!!
kristen

[Raskill]

Also most deaths by snakebite in Australia have occurred either when the "victim" was either actively trying to kill it or simply absent-mindedly stepped on it.

Thats the problem, my son and nephews are toddlers, and I have a creek that runs past my house, so, we get snakes up next to the house, rather than worry about the snakes welfare, I worry about my families.