D90 with Macro lens decision

[amashun1]

Hi all,
i'm a new DSLR user so everything is pretty new to me.
Long story short, i have been spending a lot of time on the forums reading review on lenses and i have problem to choose between these two models which i would mainly use it for my aquarium close up shots:

Sigma APO MACRO 150mm f/2.8
Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 VR micro

From my understand is that Nikkor lens is the most preferable lens on many forums but the sigma has given the extra length for shooting, so i'm just wondering which one would you guys prefer? please also consider that i have to take pictures in front of the glass so i'm not so sure the sigma 150mm is giving a lot advantage here.

having said that, i also bough the nikko old school 105mm f/4 micro lens on ebay so i really would like to hear everyone's opinions on them. any inputs would be greatly appreciated.

All i have ATM is a D90 and the kit lens 18-105mm VR

Many thanks,
Adrian

[Chica]

Hi there
I also have a D90 and went through the same process as you in comparing macro lenses. We ended up choosing the 105mm 2.8. Decided we wanted more reach than a 50 or 60mm macro and also saw some pretty impressive sample shots! I havent had the opportunity to play with it alot yet, but the pics I have taken I have been happy with.
Good luck!
Cathy

[aim54x]

have you considered the Tamron 90mm, there are a lot of threads discussing macro lenses on this forum so maybe search and have a read.

However, consider what you need your macro for, 150mm, 180mm, 200mm are good for bugs due to their longer working distance, but the 90/100/105mm are pretty good general purpose macros and double as nice portrait lenses.

[amashun1]

thanks guys for your inputs, any sigma 150mm user on here?

This is what i've managed to find out.

http://www.dpnotes.com/sigma-150mm-macro-for-nikon/

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=26626415

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... 05+VR&qf=m

[scoobydoo]

I am also throwing up between the 105mm nikon and the 150mm bugma macro lens. Personally I plan to go for the 150mm because I've already got some sigma teleconvertors. HKsupplies has a decent price, but they have yet to email me back with a stock availability.

[ATJ]

I recommend either the Tamron 90mm or the Nikkor 60mm f/2.8. While the extra reach of the 105mm or 150mm are good, they introduce other problems - or would at least for me.

My main macro lens is the older Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D. And it is a real workhorse. For macro work I almost always use flash with a soft box, with the flash mounted on the camera. I have a couple of different DIY soft boxes and the camera to subject distance with the 60mm lens means I can go for very small apertures (if I want). This allows me more flexibility with depth of field as well as background ambient lighting. The larger soft box allows me to go to f/16 and the smaller one to f/32 and sometimes even smaller.

If I was to attempt the same things with a 105mm or 150mm lens, I'd be limited to f/11 or even f/8. In fact, when I got my 200mm macro lens, that was the main problem I had. I did build a new soft box which extends further but I'm still limited with the minimum aperture.

[amashun1]

thanks ATJ. i've check your site and you have some really amazing pictures.

I've tried 105mmVR and i think i would settle with this lens now because it would also be good for me to upgrade to FX camera later (if i have spare cash of coz)

[tntman]

Amashun1,

In my opinion go with the macro lens with the fastest focusing and a lens that has internal focusing built in. First of all, fish do not sit still like flowers do, fish move about extremely rapidly its hard, so you will need the fastest focus lens to help you lock into focus and it also helps to set your shutter speed to at least 1/200 to get the frozen fish look.

The 2nd issue is that because you are limited to your fish tank glass, the Sigma and Tamron lens stick out considerably when you focus onto a subject, often you might find yourself hitting into the tank! The Nikon 105mm VR has internal focus, like the Canon 100mm Macro.

At PMA, I tried all 3 macro lens (Canon 100mm Macro in my case) and found that due to the USM motor and internal focus, I'll be buying that instead of the Sigma or Tamron macros.

Hope I've helped!

[ATJ]

I use my 60mm lens for aquarium fish photos, too. It is not internal focusing and is not blindingly fast but I don't have a lot of issues with it.

For fish (as with any animal) it is important to study the subject for a period and what where it moves and how it moves. Most fish in an aquarium will follow some sort of pattern. Decide where you want to take the shot and set yourself up to take the shot in that place. Focus on something at around the same distance as you expect the fish to be so that the lens doesn't need to focus much and wait for the fish to move to where you want it.

I have never had problems with the lens hitting the glass.

You will need to use flash for lighting for 2 main reasons. 1) The fish tank lights will unlikely be bright enough to allow decent shutter speeds and apertures. 2) You will have a very hard time with white balance. You need an external flash rather than the built-in flash as the built-in flash is too close to the lens and you will get its reflection. A decent external flash can still be used in the hot shoe because you will be close enough to the glass to provide sufficient separation.

Edit: There is sufficient separation between the flash and the lens when using my 60mm lens. I haven't used a 105mm lens but it will mean you have to move back further and so you might not have enough separation.

Here are some examples:

[amashun1]

thanks tntman and ATJ. sorry, i should clarify that i have no problem for fishes shots since i use my previous G10. here is a bad example (i don't post it directly because it is not a DSLR pic)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/ ... G_3276.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/ ... G_2962.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/ ... G_2937.jpg
I think it is just like ATJ said once you have studied where your fish's active spots then it should be pretty easy to catch even with the slower prosumer's shutter speed.

i did attempted couple shots with my kit lens and find it no problem so far. however, i find it slightly differently to what ATJ suggested. i actually have no problems for lighting, in fact, i do sometime need to reduce the EV so i don't get too much light.

my intention for getting a macro lens is to take some wicked shots of my corals. (yeah i know, a lot of people may find it hard to believe) Once i tired those macro shots from my G10 and i'm pretty much fall in love with it so i quickly decided to upgrade it. I also would like to learn other techniques to take different style of photography. (i.e landscape, portrait ...etc) with other lens of coz. so DSLR is a good way to try different photography style i suppose.

here are some previous bad examples that i took with macro shots again:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/ ... G_3128.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/ ... G_3132.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/ ... G_2723.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/ ... G_2742.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/ ... G_3064.jpg

Anyway, i dropped in ECS and had a good chat with Bruce, he also suggest that i can get away with the 60mm because the lens is a lot lighter so VR is not needed. but i think i also like the longer working distance of the 105mm so i can take really really close up shots and i can also use that for portrait photography. I also understand that taking macro shots should be manually adjust the focusing point so i would say AF might be not a main priority here (but of coz i understand it is good to have addition function ) btw, ATJ did pointed out one thing that i still have great problem to deal with the WB. i tried pre set auto WB and it is still hard to get the actual colour. are there any tricky way to do it instead of adjust it in PS?

Thanks again for you guys input.

Cheers,
A

[ATJ]

G'day Adrian,

The fish shots look great although the white balance is off as suggested. This would be because your lights don't simulate sunlight (around 6500K) and I guess you run something like 10000K (which is only a simulation anyway). While it may appear you have enough light, I notice the two regal angelfish shots were 1/30s and f/3.5 (ISO 125). This is going to be a little slow with a longer lens on the DSLR and camera movement will be noticeable. Additionally, the aperture will be very small reducing the depth of field. Either of these won't be so bad with the G10 because the lens is wider angle and the smaller sensor gives you more depth of field for the same apparent magnification. You would be much better off with a flash (SB-600 or SB-800/900) mounted on the hot shoe. This will help with both colour balance and shutter speed (a flash is on for around 1/1000 second or less) as well as give you more freedom of the aperture so you can achieve a desirable depth of field.

For coral shots, flash is of less value. A lot of the desirable colour you see in the corals is due to fluorescence (proteins produced by the coral) and the flash will wash out the fluorescence due to the more even spread of wavelengths. (Note that you can get filters for the flash and lens to shoot fluorescence and I can provide information on that if you're interested.)

So, for coral, use the tank lighting. Ideally, you should mount the camera on a tripod so you get no camera movement at all. This will also give you the opportunity to shoot with a wide range of apertures so you can play with the depth of field to suit the coral you're shooting. Smaller apertures (larger f/stops) will result in more depth of field meaning more of the coral appears sharp. However, a greater depth of field also means the background (if visible) will also be sharper and that may detract from the shot. With the camera mounted on a tripod, the shutter speed is largely unimportant so you can shoot with any aperture.

A couple of problems you will have with the tank lighting are colour balance and shadows. The former may not matter all that much as you want the corals to look good and there's no "correct" coloration of them, especially considering the effects of fluorescence. Shading will be an issue, though, and some of your examples show some shading (I guess the corals were close to the front glass). You may be able to soften some of the shadows using a piece of paper or even some aluminium foil to reflect some light to the front of the coral.

If you wanted to use preset WB, you'd really need to put a grey card in the water and shoot that. You may be able to put it just above the water level and shoot to get the setting.

[amashun1]

G'day Andrew and thank you for your inputs again.

A lot of points you've made and i couldn't agree more and i'm sure you have done a lot testing before

Yep, the RA was taken under different lighting system (all T5s) and the mandarin was taken with MH and T5 combo. But i will try to take it with flash later if i still have enough money left after purchase the lenses.

RE the flash with coral, yes please if you don't mind. i always love to learn new things

Again, You are correct, the coral shots are very close to the front glass and that's why i'm able to use the G10 to shoot really close. I surprised you are the only person who noticed this and point it out as i posted it to a few reefing forums on the photography section but no one say these to me.

Thanks you for the advise on getting the correct white balance, there was a HK reefer said exactly the same thing as you did to use the Grey card to set it up (i use white object at the moment found colour is not accurate) but i will definitely give grey card a try.

thanks you Andrew once again for all these advises. very helpful and much appreciated.

Cheers.
Adrian

[ATJ]

RE the flash with coral, yes please if you don't mind. i always love to learn new things

I was going to write something here, but thought it would be easier in my blog - especially with the examples.

Photographing Fluorescence in Corals

It is only a draft at the moment and I want to add a lot more. It will give you the basics as well as showing a couple of examples. I'll add more examples when I have time.

The filters you need you get from a place called Night Sea (link in the blog entry). Unfortunately, the site no longer appears to be in the DNS. I hope it is a temporary problem. There's a guy in MASS (Marine Aquarium Society of Sydney) that was importing the filters so you may be able to get the from him.

[amashun1]

thanks Andrew, i will check it for sure.

I think i know the guy who you talking about the night sea filter. i got a few gears from him before too.

Cheers,
Adrian