PMA Report.

[gstark]

Well, today was good in parts.

First of all, it was good, over the two days so far, to catch up with all of the forum members stopping by to say hello.

It was especially good to see some members whom I'd not had the privilege to have met before, some old, some new, as well as catch up with some older members who had not been in touch for a while. I apologise for any names that my failing memory has caused me to omit, but I do like to try to mention all the names ... if only so I can eventually have a head count.

Reschsmooth, Matt K (and Philo) JoeT (and Chryssine), Servassproducts, aim54x, colin_12, biggerry, firsty, onyx, Geoff, Glamy, LostDingo(2), Radar, tntman, gadgit, nnnnsic, smac (who is actually on a neighbouring stand) ....

After the session closed today, a dozen of us ended up in Chinatown for dinner with Poon and his brother ... all paid for out of the generosity of Poon's heart.

The bad news is the disgusting, shameful way in which the organisers of PMA have treated Poon: they have banned him from selling things on his stand, because, they tell us, that "no sales are permitted".

Bullshit!

Disgusting lies and utter bullshit!

The contract for the stand at PMA is quite clear in that it states on page 6 of their document entitled EXHIBITOR MANUAL, BOOKING & ORDER FORMS

14. On site sale of sample product by exhibitors is permitted but a written and dated receipt must be
provided to purchasers so that they can show it to security when the goods are carried out.

This is a publicly viewable document, available here.

But, it seems to be only partially relevant: the "no sales permitted" statement that was peddled to us today is proven to be an outright lie, on their very own website.

From that site, please observe the following items ...

Australia Photo-Shop-Studio 516 15% to 20% off Show Specials

NIK Software 498a Special Show Pricing

Photo Direct 541 Show Bargains Galore!

Wacom Australia 519 Special Show Pricing

Each of these organisations was selling product direct to the public.

HP were there, selling product, direct to the public, and even had a sign there advising that they were only selling to the public "in consumer quantities". We have video evidence of this occurring.

Focal Press were there, selling books. Piles of them. Credit cards were an acceptable form of payment, according to the sign they had on display. This was witnessed by us.

Benro tripods were selling stock. People were buying the product, and taking it with them!

Camera bags were being sold from the Pentax stand. We have at least one member who purchased products from them.

Magazine publishers were selling backissues as "samples".

The organisers of PMA are behaving in a despicable manner; they should be ashamed of themselves. It would appear that the only trader that they have barred from selling product is Poon. Why?

Disgraceful.

Shame, shame, shame on PMA!

[Onyx]

I would like to firstly express my gratitude to everyone I came into contact with today - especially Mr Poon (and his brother, who incidently spells his name Mr Pun - same sound), and for the reason you so highlighted, this will be the last time I will attend PMA.

I can't believe the actions taken by the organisers. I was present when the head stooge and his toughie security escorts came up to the Phottix stand and caused the one stall to modify their business practises when they were not in breach of any of the guidelines set forth by the event organisers. Selectively discriminating against Mr Poon. He was not doing anything different to other stall holders, and yet were the only ones to be told to cease trading. No justification or clarification was given, I simply heard one stooge stating that "the PMA organisers" could refuse the right of entry to any individuals. That's all well and great, but on what grounds?!?

As Gary so bluntly put it - it's bullshit. (One thing I miss about this forum is the way you present things so brutally honest!) I'm sure there were behind the scenes politics involved, and some person or company got butthurt the Phottix stand had much foot traffic and were doing a roaring trade they used their powers of influence over the PMA organisers to cut off the tall poppy.

While that experience was sour, it was certainly great to see old forum members from way back, and to meet new ones too. It felt like a family reunion to me!

[surenj]

Corrupt bastards. It's interesting how one seller got hassled. I wonder who it is that poon had made unhappy? Nikon? for duplicating their GPS? Canon for making a nice 5Dmk2 grip for half price?

Hope tomorrow is a new day and hope he sells his stock out!

Go phottix! PS: nice innovation with the remote photo viewing gadget!

[Reschsmooth]

It was great to catch up with a few of the members who I hadn't seen for ages, met for the first time (Cameron), Gary & Leigh.

The treatment of Poon has been sufficiently explained and discussed above and no more needs to be said by me, except: shameful.

[gstark]

I simply heard one stooge stating that "the PMA organisers" could refuse the right of entry to any individuals. That's all well and great, but on what grounds?!?

Let me be very clear about this. The Exhibition Centre security officers were very professional, very understanding, very courteous, and very helpful in this matter: they were merely doing what they were told. The problem was caused by the PMA organisers.

At one point, we had four PMA organisers, plus two security people, standing around Poon and myself, refusing to permit me to speak, threatening to expel Poon from the exhibition. Talk about coercion and intimidation! I will note that the two security personnel were standing back a little, but they were there. I decided to start recording audio of what was happening - as is my legal right for my protection - and was also threatened with expulsion.

One of the PMA organisers, whom I had earlier engaged in discussion about this matter, and to whom I had delivered evidence that other organisations were trading, then lied to me about what had taken place earlier.

I wonder who it is that poon had made unhappy?

I have no idea, and I am not prepared to speculate in this matter. The simple fact is that Poon had products that were of interest to the attendees, and that his pricing was attractive enough that attendees were willing to pay for those products.

If other PMA attendees have issue with that, surely the correct course of action is to review their product range and practices?

PS: nice innovation with the remote photo viewing gadget!

For the information of members who have not been able to attend, Poon had several new products on display. The Hero is a wireless remote control unit, suitable for pretty much any DSLR. The big deal with this device is that it hooks up to the camera's eyepiece (as well as to the remote socket) and provides the operator with remote wireless live view remote control. Think about it.

The Hector is a similar device, cheaper, but it works by hooking into the host camera's live view display. Whereas Hero is wireless, this is a wired (tethered) remote.

A couple of other remotes are available, complete with built-in interval timer functionality.

[Frankenstein]

Very disappointing news
I'm leaving soon to attend the PMA; I'm having some second thoughts now, but why should the dickheads win? Thankfully I have a free pass, otherwise there's no way I'd be handing over my cash to attend. I will certainly give Poon my support. I wonder if there has been any development overnight?

Frank

[colin_12]

A big thankyou to Poon and Co for a lovely dinner in good company.
Also thanks for the bargains on offer.
It is terrible that Poon was singled out for unjust treatment. Extremely disappointing and just plain not right.
So much for a fair go.

[gstark]

I wonder if there has been any development overnight?

Rest assured, I'm working to try to get the situation rectified.

[biggerry]

I would like to firstly express my gratitude to everyone I came into contact with today - especially Mr Poon (and his brother, who incidently spells his name Mr Pun - same sound)

Also thanks for the bargains on offer.

Its just about all been said so.....

[radar]

Gary,

Just to add my voice, I was at the show and I have personally purchased products there from other vendors and nobody asked to see my receipts when I exited. These items were purchased on credit card and there certainly was no "secrecy" in terms of them selling it.

Hope Sunday brought back some sanity to the organisers.

cheers,

André

[smac]

I would like to firstly express my gratitude to everyone I came into contact with today - especially Mr Poon (and his brother, who incidently spells his name Mr Pun - same sound)

It is strange that they spell their surname differently, I guess Mr Pun felt that his name was a "play on words".

[ATJ]

I would like to firstly express my gratitude to everyone I came into contact with today - especially Mr Poon (and his brother, who incidently spells his name Mr Pun - same sound)

It is strange that they spell their surname differently, I guess Mr Pun felt that his name was a "play on words".

I think that is more about the Anglicism of Chinese names. I expect the Chinese representation of the name to be the same. Another example is Chung, Cheung and Choong which are usually the same name.

[Matt. K]

Great to catch up with everyone at PMA and the dinner. Poon generously picked up the tab for the table and seemed thoroughly at home with his forum 'family'. For those who are not aware of it, Poon now manufactures some very useful photographic accessories at remarkable prices. The crowd around his stand was proof that he is doing something right. The fact that the PMA management tried to close him down is further proof that he has the opposition sincerely worried. Check out the gadgets, including the nifty flash diffuser that fits over the pop-up flash, on the HKsupplies website. A GPS system for your NIKON camera at half the NIKON price. Why would they not be worried?

[Reschsmooth]

... at remarkable prices...

Unless you're the victim of Gary's interpretive, average pricing policy! (Gary & Surenj know what I mean!)

[tntman]

It was a pleasure to meet the Mr G himself and Mr Poon and his brother!

I am too disgusted by the fact that the organisers treated Mr Poon this way. Other stands are selling their equipment off the floor as well! In the deep corner of hall 6, opposite side to the cafeteria there was a store selling their background clothes for $75 a piece (single colored) and $129 for the multi colored muslin backdrops!

Oh, Olympus had a really nice stand.. showcasing the EP1! Who's gonna buy one after playing with one? I know I wont! (I'll start another topic later on about that!) My one complaint is that this old white hair guy treated me with much rudeness on Friday! Let me tell you the story.

I approached the stand like a kid in candy store as I was pretty excited about seeing the EP1. At the time I had my 1D hanging off my shoulder. So as soon as I held the EP1 I placed my 1D onto the stand with the LCD screen. I started playing and the bloke didn't seem like he was interested in talking to me, either way I started to ask him some questions. Straight away he said to me, "Whats this rubbish? Get it off!" He was referring to my 1D on the table. I said, "Your comparing a 1D vs a compact P&S?" At that point I wasn't sure if he was joking by making a smart comment or telling me to get my camera off that table... I then proceeded to play with the EP1, the one on the table didn't autofocus so I asked the guy if autofocus was disabled or not, he did'nt bother to look at the one on the table and said here, play with this one it works. Same thing, it didn't autofocus. So I gave it back to him and he was fiddling around with it. I said, "I hope that Olympus quality isn't like this?" Straight away he snapped at me in a rude tone, "what are you saying? Are you being smart? Do YOU want to get kicked out?" I was stunned, like WTF? I just said, "well if anything, your the rude one here" and walked off to another guy. Every other guy at Olympus were very nice, extremely helpful especially the tall man in the glasses who offered and allowed me to play with the EP1 mounted on their nice zoom lens with an adaptor!

I didn't let one rude guy destroy my experience at PMA but I had to get it off my chest, I felt like punching the guy right in the face for being such a dick. Now I feel like punching the PMA organisers too! they are a bunch of hyprocrites!

I hope you all had fun! I know I did as I was like in electronic porn heaven!

[aim54x]

Just home and rested from a full day of working with Poon...I am glad to report that we were allowed to sell items unhampered...and even had all the extra stock released from the watchful eye of the site office late in the day. The business was good but the stock quickly ran out for the favoured items.

It was great to be able to get to know all the new toys that Poon has on offer and I am very tempted to pick up a lot of his wares....but I had to resist.

I was there also yesterday and also think it is disgusting that Eternal Forune (Phottix) was discriminated against by the PMA organisers and would really like to see blood for this outrage. Hopefully Poon has made some good contacts and has scraped enough together to make this trip worthwhile. I have to say that he is a very nice man and really would have no problems getting behind him and his products!

[sheepie]

So presumably there will be a reason coming from PMA as to why Poon was not permitted to sell? And if not, presumably some compensation claim will be mounted by Poon. I look forward with interest to see the final outcome of this. Certainly, from what Gary has told us, this is not a good situation to be in - it didn't look like it was going to be pretty when the suits turned up yesterday afternoon, that's for sure!

I hope Poon wasn't too put off. Was great to see him again - wish we could see him more often

Apologies for not coming to dinner with you guys, would have loved to but we've all been sick here over the last few weeks and being out at night probably wouldn't have been a good idea

[surenj]

Unless you're the victim of Gary's interpretive, average pricing policy! (Gary & Surenj know what I mean!)

been sick here over the last few weeks and being out at night probably wouldn't have been a good idea

Leon, the fresh Sydney air would have cured you!!

[Glen]

Sorry I didn't make the show, still working here, but sounds like it was worthwhile (excluding Poon's hassles).

http://www.pmaaustralia.com.au/a/85.html

The above link on the organiser's website lists all the "Consumer and B2B Visitor Specials" including some prices, so clearly they expected selling if they are advertising it!

[gstark]

Final day report.

The show is done, and today I'm in recovery mode. I have an Avis van in the garage; it's got a dozen boxes inside it that need to be relocated to the outside of the van, and it then needs to be returned to Mr Avis later in the afternoon.

To update you on the PMA fiasco, basically, no change from them, and I, for one, am not happy. While they did permit us to remove the boxes from secure storage after 3pm, there was, to my mind, a clear case of conflict of interests, vested interests, jealousy, restraint of trade, perhaps discrimination, and certainly double standards in play.

I'm not yet aware of what remedies may be available, nor of how far Poon may want to take this. I will be looking further into this, and those who know me will understand exactly how I feel about what has transpired.

I am, quite frankly, ashamed that these so-called people could stoop so low as to try to stop somebody from doing exactly what they were permitting many other people to do. I am ashamed that I share the same nationality with them. This is no way to treat a guest at your convention!

They refused to discuss the cases of others doing this, and they refused to examine physical evidence that we had of others doing exactly what we were doing. They suggested that they examine that after the show had closed, when things may be more relaxed. That does nothing in terms of addressing the real problems - their incompetence, and their conflicts of interest.

A special note of thanks needs to be made: two members, aim54x and dviv, gave up their Sunday to spend the day helping on the stand. And by helping on the stand, I mean that Cameron and David spent the day talking, listening, lifting, toting, standing, and just being wonderful people.

So, David and Cameron, thank you very much; your efforts were truly appreciated.

[Mr Darcy]

I have to say I really regret missing the event. I had planned to be there Saturday, going down with Colin, but last minute family matters trumped any plans I had for the weekend. It is doubly a shame. Some of those remotes you describe would really resolve some difficulties I have with some of my shooting.

Still I managed to save some money.

Really sorry to hear about Poon's difficulties with the organisers. Surely they should have just apologised & walked away when the contract that clearly stated that sales were OK was pointed out to them? It sounds like it was just Saturday though.

[photohiker]

I suspect it might be worthwhile talking to the office of Fair Trading

There also may be an office of Equal Opportunity in your state that would be interested in the details.

In my experience, you cannot afford to let this sort of behaviour slide by. It's unacceptable, and by the sound of it probably unlawful. PMA is not worth supporting if this is the cost. Stick it to them.

Michael

[surenj]

Very dissapointing that things didn't improve on Sunday. I needed a shoot-through umbrella and flash diffuser but didn't want to buy it from poon on Saturday as I didn't want to be stirring things up.

I wonder whether poon's side of the argument would hold up with the fair trading commission? Would you need written proof that the PMA blocked him from selling? Would they accept Gary's recordings of various events on his phone? It would be layers of beurocracy and paperwork. I suppose it's good if poon is going to return to PMA in Melbourne next year. Would the media be interested in this story perhaps? [as a last resort]

[Reschsmooth]

.. showcasing the EP1! Who's gonna buy one after playing with one? I know I wont! (I'll start another topic later on about that!)

We will consider it as it ticks a number of boxes relating to our objectives. I played with one for less than 2 minutes. I did not check IQ, but functionality looked good. Good frame rate, ISO coverage, lens pedigree, 720p HD movie mode, etc.

The price is relatively high which we will take into account. Our options for a high quality, portable, hot-shoe equipped camera include this one, the Nikon P6000 (with that stupid Windows only RAW file format), the Canon G10, or the Nikon S3

[surenj]

Patrick, would you consider the LX3 or do you need 720p. LX3 has 1280x800 I think. Major gripe is the stupid RAW format and MOV movie format. Lens has alot of distortion as well.

[Reschsmooth]

:ot:
Patrick, would you consider the LX3 or do you need 720p. LX3 has 1280x800 I think. Major gripe is the stupid RAW format and MOV movie format. Lens has alot of distortion as well.

Hi Surenj, we don't 'need' any of the movie modes as this is not something we do a lot of now. So that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. We would simply want the use of good lenses and a nice, clean RAW format.

[whitey]

it's got a dozen boxes inside it that need to be relocated to the outside of the van, and it then needs to be returned to Mr Avis later in the afternoon.

Does that mean there is excess stock available? Or is Poon shipping back to HK.

[gstark]

Does that mean there is excess stock available?

Have I got a deal for you ...

Give me a few days please. I want to go through the boxes and do a stocktake of what's left over.

[whitey]

Have I got a deal for you ...

Great, some of the stuff sounds pretty cool.

Give me a few days please. I want to go through the boxes and do a stocktake of what's left over.

No hurry at all. Busy at the moment with uni, otherwise would have been able to come out over the weekend.

[phillipb]

Australia Photo-Shop-Studio 516 15% to 20% off Show Specials

NIK Software 498a Special Show Pricing

Photo Direct 541 Show Bargains Galore!

Wacom Australia 519 Special Show Pricing

Gary, I fully agree with you, although advertising show specials is a bit different to actually selling from the stand.
I do some part time work for a company which had a stand just around the corner from Poon's stand and we had some special prices for the show but you could only place an order for future delivery, not that this makes any difference to the way Poon was treated, lots of people were selling on the spot, I bought a couple of magazines myself from a stand which had heaps of stock on hand. Another stand had the price of the magazines (3 for $5.00) in big writing above the stand. Not exactly a level playing field.

[gstark]

Australia Photo-Shop-Studio 516 15% to 20% off Show Specials

NIK Software 498a Special Show Pricing

Photo Direct 541 Show Bargains Galore!

Wacom Australia 519 Special Show Pricing

Gary, I fully agree with you, although advertising show specials is a bit different to actually selling from the stand.

Phillip,

You are absolutely correct. However, this is a direct quote from the PMA website ....

Visit Photo Direct on the HP stand for great Photo Jewellery, Photo Travel Mugs, Photo Cards, Posse Pouch Camera/Phone Bags, Photo Book Presentation Covers, 3.5" Digital Frames, Camera Screen Guards, SLR Sensor Cleaners and much much more, prices start from just $5.00, walk away with your show bargain.

"walk away with your show bargain"? That seems pretty clear to me.

And consider this one ...

Crazy Offer: A free 5"x 7" professional parent album or 3m x 6m gauze backdrop will be available for every 3m x 6m mottled muslin backdrop purchased at the show (our handpainted mottled muslin backdrops are available for only $119 each including GST!!!!!). This offer is valid until all relevant available show stock is sold out so don't miss out!

"purchased at the show" and "all relevant available show stock is sold out" seems, to me, to be reasonably clear.

What about the page header - "Consumer and B2B Specials" ? On the one hand they're trying to tell us that there were no sales at all on the show floor, yet ....

We have video footage, along with a receipt, of a purchase made by Leigh at the HP stand. People came to me and told me they had purchased a Benro monopod. The book publishers around the corner from us were doing a roaring trade; Dragon Image were selling flash adapters at $99 each ... from a box, and to all comers ... another stand was selling blue and green screen backdrops to all and sundry.

I think it may have been Matt K who purchased something on the Pentax stand. My understanding is that there's a connection between the Pentax stand and a senior person in the PMA administration.

With the book publishers, they tried to stop them, but then they came back to them and told them to continue doing "what they were doing", and then lied to me about what they had told them. The people on that stand actually came up to me and told me what they'd been told .... twice.

Not exactly a level playing field.

And that is the point. Not only was the playing field not level, they put hurdles in front of Poon, but not anyone else.

[Matt. K]

Gary
I sense your outrage and sense that it is about to be unleashed in a cold, clinical and very destructive way. Look out PMA!....your days are about to become very uncomfortable!

[colin_12]

Have I got a deal for you ...

Cool. I did not really get to have much of a play on the stand on the day. There were quite a few items of interest .............and then the PMA hit the fan. (It was also packed until after the get out anouncement!)
We will probably need to draw straws........

It would be nice to get some of the gear not there onto the bargains page.

[gstark]

It would be nice to get some of the gear not there onto the bargains page.

Not on the bargains page per se, because that handles stuff that needs to be shipped from HKG. A page of locally stocked items however ...

Changing the subject very slightly ... I received an email overnight from PMA. Nothing special; just a request to complete their
[url="http://pma.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0zNTcxMDkmcD0xJnU9MTAxMTgwOTQ0NSZsaT0xMzMwNTkx/index.html"]post-exhibition survey[/url].

I would encourage all of you to complete this survey.

It would, of course, be wrong of me to encourage you all to express your disgust at their attitude and behaviour in this document, but I certainly did in mine.

And if, however, you feel that such an expression on your part is appropriate ....

[gstark]

I suspect it might be worthwhile talking to the office of Fair Trading

Michael,

I think that the NSW Office of Fair TRading is more geared towards issues relating to unfair dealing by businesses with consumers, rather than business to business dealings.

That said, it strikes me that a number of consumers might have attended this show, and felt hard done by through PMA's unfair dealings to them due to the way that they, perhaps unfairly, prevented one of the exhibitors from selling them goods, while permitting many other exhibitors to continue selling their lines of products.

In that realm, I think it would be entirely appropriate for any such consumer to lodge such a complaint with the NSW OoFT. Does anybody here know of any such disaffected consumer?

[JordanP]

Survey completed - opinions clearly stated.

Also, nice to see some old faces

[losfp]

Good to hear that fun was had (organiser shenanigans notwithstanding). I had meant to get out of the house and go to this but unfortunately I've been sick the last few days (actually been off work since Friday) so that wasn't an option.

Hope to see some of you sooner rather than later though, it has been too long

[gstark]

Survey completed - opinions clearly stated.

Also, nice to see some old faces

Thanks Craig, that is greatly appreciated.

Poon is now back in HKG, and is off again to another trade fair on the mainland. He had a good time meeting with everyone from here, and thanks everyone for their support.

[surenj]

then the PMA hit the fan. (It was also packed until after the get out anouncement!)

Haha! This would be PMS hitting the fan.

[Onyx]

Survey filled out - and I demanded answers (and gave a means of contact). I'll wait and see what becomes of this.

[devilla101]

Well I had a really good time at PMA on Sunday. It was my first and took the missus along to see what its going to be like. All I have to say was WOW! There was just so many things to check out. It was really fun to get hold and try out the cameras I've only read and seen on the net. Highlight of the day was finally getting a hold of Olympus EP-1 Can't wait for it to be released. Looks like a sweet camera. BTW good to talk to you again Gary.I really digged finally checking out some of Poons products he sells on ebay. A couple of tempting items esp. The Digital timer cable release at $80!! Way better than the canon equiv which retails for like $200+.

Overall had a really fun and informative day