Some advice needed

[bigsarg7]

Hello everyone!

A friend of mine is looking at buying a camera but simply wants one where she can take nice shots and catch the action when its happening not like her current little point and shoot camera. She is new to the DSLR world, i have lent her my e510 to learn some basics, but she was being led astray by the store salesmen with jargen she didn't understand. Hopefully after a few days of fiddling with my camera she might learn some of the basics.

Salesmen were trying to sell her the d5000, but never sugested the d90 or d300, or suggested any other brands to try like the Olympus E series, cannon or sony etc.

For an absolute beginner who doesn't want a massively bulky heavy camera which would you suggest best for her, or if you can recommend any point and shoots that are actually good, her husband brought her a tough 8000 but really it wasn't very good, so yeah any suggestions will be passed onto her!! thanks everyone, cant wait to hear everyones comments on the suitability of the cameras of different brands!! lol

kristen

[whitey]

Whats the budget? And is a DSLR really needed?

I am thinking about a Canon G10.

Just been on holiday and wasnt able to carry D80 + bunch of lenses. Ended up using wifes Ixus 70 - was really happy with the shots. So a G10 is maybe for me pending testing shutter lag. 600 bux though.

[Reschsmooth]

There is a lot of good information on this thread following my kind of similar question.

[bigsarg7]

yeah thanks, i used to have an ixus too, i have to say it was back in the old days when they were only 4 mp!! lol yeah budget doesn't seem to be an issue i mean she was looking at the d5000 so anything up towards the 2000 mark i guess.

[bigsarg7]

just been searching around and come across some of the large zoom compacts, they seem quite interesting, does anyone have any comments on the best brand or ease of use of these? they obvisouly aren't pocket size which isn't an issue for my friend, but aren't as heavy and big as the DSLR the salesmen were trying to sell her!

[gstark]

I am thinking about a Canon G10.

The concept of "catching the action" was mentioned. No PHD will do that with any degree of comfort or confidence.

Salesmen were trying to sell her the d5000, but never sugested the d90 or d300,

I would be thinking that a D5000, or a D60, would be right on the money, given the absence of any prior experience with a DSLR. D90 would possibly be too much camera, but worth a look. D300 would be too much camera.

Also suggest that she look at the Canon 500D. Whichever of those fits her hands and with which she feels comfy would be how I would suggest she goes.

Grab a reasonable kit lens - 17-105 on the Nikon side, say, and she'll be set.

[whitey]

I am thinking about a Canon G10.

The concept of "catching the action" was mentioned. No PHD will do that with any degree of comfort or confidence.

Is that because of shutter lag? My understanding is that the G10 has hugely improved shutter lag. Going to test tomorrow in shop.

Maybe bigsarge7 can clarify more on what "catching the action"is.

[chrisk]

i think the d90 is a better option. its only $75 more, (at ECS), and for that you get the built in AF motor and PUF access to nikon wireless cls. the body, (i found personally), is also nicer to hold with all the stuff in the right places.

[aim54x]

i think the d90 is a better option. its only $75 more, (at ECS), and for that you get the built in AF motor and PUF access to nikon wireless cls. the body, (i found personally), is also nicer to hold with all the stuff in the right places.

+1

[bigsarg7]

hey folks, sorry its taken me a day to reply, been busy with the family and gym. In regards to the comment i made in an earlier post about "catching the action" it was refering to her 3 and a half year old son and 1 year old son, they both aren't the biggest fans of their photo's being taken so all her shots seem to be action shots of them playing chasey or footy, or riding bikes etc, the usual active children always on the move.

I've had a chat with my friend this morning, she rang harvey norman where her husband purchased the Olympus tough 8000, and they will accept it back only if she buys the nikon d5000, is it just me or is that wrong? lol .... i mean the tough only cost her 550 and they want her to pay an addtional 1500 to buy a DSLR? this sounds so crazy to me, I am tryin my darndest to help her out sourcing the most suitable camera for her ability.

She has borrowed my camera (olympus e510) and is loving the shots she seems to be taking, and the navigation, so i suggested she borrow it for a few more days to see if she really wants an Dslr etc. After browsing a few different shops i have come across a few different cameras, not DSLR, or a compact, but has features of both, most shops list them as "big zoom cameras" i have listed them below.

cannon powershot sx1is (pricey at $945)

Nikon Coolpix P90(799)

Olympus sp590 ($799)

Panasonic Lumix FZ-28 ($699)

Fuji Finepix S200EXR (799)

Fuji Finepix S100FS (949)

If you could help me out and maybe say yay or nay to them? thanks for looking and for all your help.

Kristen

[bigsarg7]

After watching a few reviews on each of those cameras i listed, i think the nikon p90 sounds really quite interesting, kind of a really nice little camera, well not pocket size but nice and looks like it'd be comfy to hold. Would anyone else agree or what are your reasons for liking other ones?

[bigsarg7]

thanks everyone, my friend decided on the d5000. thanks anyways guys maybe this post can help someone else in future!! i still want the p90 though to keep in handbag/ nappy bag lol

[aim54x]

I dont think Harvey Norman is allowed to force the sale to a D5000....I was speaking with Fujifilm (at their HQ) and was told that all of their customers got a 30 day period where they can return the camera (the camera is then sent back to the factory for a check over then sold as a factory refurb). I would assume that Nikon, Canon, Olympus and Panasonic would have something similar although most places will not refund on change of mind.

I would definitely not go back to that Harvey Norman if that is what was said.

Just my 2c

[Murray Foote]

I would imagine there's also legislation that enforces that no matter what the companies say - maybe Trade Practices Act, not sure what it would be under.

[gstark]

I'm not sure that we're aware of all of the facts here. I certainly don't take the case of HN apparently issuing these sorts of conditional exchange requirements as being good, but there are different circumstances that may be applicable here, of which we're not privvy to.

If the camera is being returned as unsatisfactory - it doesn't work properly, or it fails the basic tests of merchantability - then HN are probably not playing fair, and operating beyond the scope of what the law should be providing.

But if the original purchaser has just changed their mind, and is seeking a refund/trade-in plus upgrade, then HN does have a reasonable basis from which to make such an offer to the customer.

The former of these, btw, might also be expanded to include how the original sale was transacted. What questions, and what advice, was sought from the HN salesperson at that time?

Was that salesperson viewed by the purchaser as an expert? If the purchaser explained to the salesperson the nature of the images to be taken and the conditions under which those images were being taken, and if the camera was then recommended by the salesperson as suitable but found to be unsatisfactory in service, then it would likely fail the tests of merchantability.

From what has been stated thus far, we don't fully know the circumstances of the initial purchase, nor of the proposed exchange ...

[bigsarg7]

Well heres the info that you were all wondering about : lol

2 weeks ago my friend went into harvey norman to seek advice on the best camera to suit her needs. She was then presented the d5000, which she liked but was frightened by the ammount of knowledge she needed to learn to use it to take the photo's that she would like. She then proceeded to ask the salesman what other options were available. She was then presented with not anoter dlsr, but rather the compact olympus tough 8000, he proceeded to tell her that this camera will produce the same quality shots, and give her options similar to the d5000 (which as we know isn't true). She then proceeded to buy that camera only to find when she got home and took a few photo's that it wasn't taking nice shots at all, she found in auto that the shots were unsatisfactory and in the other modes the shutter speed was too slow and we together could not figure out how to change the settings etc. I fiddled with the camera and really i would never recommend it.

After showing me, and a discussion on cameras, she decided that she would try ask HN to take it back and buy another one, as she had only taken approx 40 shots on the camera, ( - the 10 that we already on the memory card they sold to her as new?? of the shop and ppl testing the camera... weird) Once she had discussed the issue with HN the sales manager then said your lucky we will even do this, so i can only exchange it for the nikond5000 that you originally looked at. Due to it being on GE finance, they couldn't give her a store credit (which is fair enough) but they wouldn't cancel the invoice etc or try to do anything to actually help her or save her spending $1500 on top of the $550 she had already spent. After arguing she ended up buying the nikon just to get out of there.

I certainly don't think it was a fair deal, she had only taken approx 30 of her own shots and the camera was in mint condition not a scratch on it, and you would never know it had been used. (which by the sound of it the memory card if not the camera had been prior to her buying it).

She has said she has brought over 30,000 bucks worth of furniture, whitegoods and appliances there with HN but it had no tell in her circumstances, which seems to be the cockyness of them as they're the main store in our area.
In my opinion they could have done more to help her out, knowing they're salesman said that the camera would do things and clearly it didn't, and if it could, it was harder to figure out then learning a DSLR from scratch. lol

Overall she appreciated all the input from myself and from all of you. i've told her if she wants to get rid of it in the future to come knock on my door!! lol but thanks for your time everyone.

[gstark]

That sounds to me as if she would have a legitimate claim under the Sale of Goods Act.

She originally sought, from the store, their expert advice, which led her to purchase from them something that was not fit for the purpose for which it was intended.

The store manager would be coercing her, if not actively attempting to take advantage of her, in terms of him saying that "your lucky we will even do this, so i can only exchange it for the nikond5000 that you originally looked at".

The details of payment (GE Finance) are totally irrelevant.

She should reapproach the store manager and advise him that unless he reconsiders his position she will be taking further action for his breaches of the Sale of Goods Act and his attempts to override the law.

If that fails, she should call the HN head office, and ask to speak with Gerry Harvey. She will probably be put through to an assistant, but that's fine. She should calmly explain the facts, as well as the unsatisfactory attitude of the store manager, and ask for Gerry's intervention in the matter.

If that fails ... we have other ways and means ....

[bigsarg7]

gary, thanks for the advice, but my question is what can she do now that she did what they said to, she's now kinda accepted their offer, can she still go up the chain and discuss the matter? the d5000 hasn't yet come in, so she hasn't got it in her hands yet........

[chrisk]

i completely concur with what gary said. she loses nothing by pushing the issue with them.

step 1: talk to the store manager and tell them EXACTLY what happened and EXACTLY what you want.
step 2: if the store manager cant fix it tell them that you will contact Gerry Harvey.
step 3: if he says "too bad" then call Gerry.
step 4: if the matter is not resolved then tell them you will contact the dept of fair trading and the media.

the thing is with these basic salespeople is they dont want to think, so i would strongly recommend she clearly articulate the experience and also clearly articulate what it is she wants for her to stop being a "problem.". my preference would be to put it in writing. the key here is to not be wishy washy and emotional. be clear, be concise and be professional.

[whitey]

If she does get a D5000 make sure the service issue here viewtopic.php?f=44&t=37019&p=393141#p393141 has been sorted/

[bigsarg7]

yeah i will speak to my friend, and try encourage her to pusue this issue, i think that the salesman was only trying to sell the more expensive camera to her for the commission. As i see no reason as to why she can't get anyother camera except the d5000, kinda suss to me. I certainly wont be buying from there anymore.

In regards to the recall, thanks for notifying us, i knew nothing about it, is that vailid for the aus cameras or just the us? Why has it been recalled for inpection etc. thanks

[gstark]

the key here is to not be wishy washy and emotional. be clear, be concise and be professional.

Exactly.

The fact that they're waiting for the camera to come in is in her favour.

She needs to insist upon exercising her rights, and that's where the sale of goods act comes in: she explained her needs, she ccepted the advice of their expert - the salesperson - and that advice was flawed. Consequently, she has a legal right to have the original sale - and everything consequent upon it - annulled.

The store manager may not be happy about it. Tough; that's why he's the store manager: he gets to address these sorts of issues: that's his job.

Encourage your friend to not be intimidated. She has rights, and the store needs to respect those rights.

[Mr Darcy]

Why has it been recalled for inpection etc. thanks

Reading the recall notice, there appears to be a problem with the power circuitry. It doesn't go on even when switched on. Sounds like a batch of faulty switches to me. I have a sneaking suspicion that ALL the cameras are affected, Nikon are using the "Check if your camera is affected" as a gimmick to disguise this. Certainly Thom Hogan reports that ALL the S/Ns he knows have been checked, have been in the "faulty" range of Serial Numbers.

[aim54x]

I would definitely take it up....and probably straight up to the store manager or even to Hardly Normal's HQ. As for the D5000 recall...there is an advisory on the Nikon Aust website with a serial number checker http://www.nikon.com.au/plugins/d5000_verification/index.php.

However your friend may want to use this as a reason for not wanting a D5000 and delaying the delivery of the camera to give her a bit more time to place the complaint into action.

[bigsarg7]

hi, just been on the phone to my friend, she has been made to do the run around for HN, and simply put has had enough. She's not impressed about the recall issue, apparently they did say that thats what caused delay in cameras arrival, but can't guarantee that the camera doesn't have the issue its been recalled for which would say it hasn't been checked?? would it not?? so she's said she wont leave the store until they do the check on line with the serial number, but i can't help but feel they have pushed her into this sale as well and now she cant be bothered fighting because of the rigmarole they keep giving her, the manager was the one who said your lucky we're doing this. which made me even more furious. Now she's looking at paying another fee to go do a basic photography course to learn to use her camera, so all up the camera has cost her a mint, and she need not have had too.......gosh i am feeling frustrated, but can't seem to get her to stop this camera purchase, i just dont wanna see her waste more money.....ahhh good old Harvey Norman, nothing quite like em!!

[aim54x]

I think it is time to give Hardley Normal's HQ (or Gerry Harvey) a call or a letter reporting this behaviour. So much for service, I am ashamed to have worked for a company that used to be owned by Harvey Norman now.....a company whose philosophy is that of service that goes the extra mile (REBEL). She should get them to price match the D5000 (Harvey Norman's 10% price guarantee just to cause them some more trouble).

These bully boy tactics that the manager has employed should not be tolerated, and I suggest that your friend and yourself spread this story as far and as wide as you possibly can to warn off customers in your area. Even if they have a monopoly in your area I am sure you will be able to get products over the phone or over the internet from reputable dealers close by.

[bigsarg7]

yeah i just got off the phone again to her, and she's waiting for her hubby to get home then they'll go into see them and try cancel everything, i think she's beginning to realise that harvey norman are ripping her off big time. I really appreciate everyones advice in handling this, i too am disgusted in Harvey Norman here in shepp, they have let the Harvey Norman name down really, its such a disgrace they'd take on bully tactics to a young family especially in these trying times.

[gstark]

Again, the important thing for them is to be calm, cool, and professional. Getting angry is counter productive, but they need to insist that their rights have been breached by the store and the store manager, and that the store needs to remedy that situation.

Wish them luck for us.