Photographic Inertia

[Dargan]

I thought I might put an experience up for general discussion.

It occured at a dinner I went to the other night. The speaker was David Suzuki at the Hilton in Brisbane and I had a desire to use the D70 and my new 1.4 50mm lens. (Which I bought due to Birddog saying go for it and also an image of Gary Stark creeping about smoky bars late at night taking snaps that I read somewhere in another thread) The trouble was when I got there, so did about 700 other people and although I was 2 tables from the speaker I was off to his left and in a hopeless position to take meaningful shots. Hence the title photographic inertia. I should have thought about the situatiion a lot more before I went there. (Eg; bought a 70-200 VR he thinks, envy JordanP's lens from the Brisbane meet [thanks for the hold Craig])

What I did do was languish in my seat and look at the professional who was working the front of the house, put the SB800 on and take it off, think better of it, get decide I would use the kit lens and I fiddled with quiet and relatively unobtrusive shots, without flash that all were too shaky and full of noise at high ISO levels cause I was too concerned about getting up and walking the floor. Eventually in question time I did do so and got one shot I was reasonably happy with and later a candid of him signing books. In retrospect I should have taken the 70-300 lens I have or bought some extension tubes for the 50mm and set up the camera on the table with a small tripod I also have.

The inertia is obvious here in this example. But then a brazen approach might have been just as bad.

I don't like the idea of being too obvious as you can see here. So I guess I am seeking a discussion of what covert actions others take in these situations?

I will post the shots on pixspot when I get them off the CF card.

[kipper]

Get the 70-200VR, you won't regret it...your bank balance might or your partner might but you won't. It's a great lense and allows you to get away with things that other times you wouldn't even bother doing.

[birddog114]

Every lens has each limitation and the 50/1.4 serves it limitation, distance is another issue same as the purposes of this lens aimed for.

[Greg B]

dargan, I remember going through this kind of thing years ago.

I had several situations where I didn't get the shots I wanted because I was too embarrassed to be obvious about taking the shots, or to move to the best position to get the shots, or whatever.

I made a conscious decision to overcome the problem. It was slightly tricky at first, but amazingly empowering.

What are we afraid of? People looking at us? Let 'em look. Being told to move away by someone in authority? No worries, if you get told, smile, say OK and move away. Looking foolish? You never look foolish getting into the best spot for a photo, you are more likely to be envied.

You have a d70, non-photographers will assume you are a pro, casual photographers will lust, Canon owners will curse their choices.

Attitude is important...

I have the right to take photos
I have the right to get into the best position to take good photos
I will be reasonable and co-operative to the degree that I need to be
There is no shame in being asked to move on

I know exactly what you mean dargan, it can all be overcome by having a positive attitude, and boy, will you have fun

[dooda]

Thanks Greg. Those are comments that I needed to hear as well. Dargan I have had the same problem.

[Link]

First, it's necessary to figure out what camera settings you'll use, what angle, etc. Then, I basically agree with Greb B: keep a positive attitude, move on the frontline, get those shots as quick as you can, and move back to your table. Even if the photos don't turn out as good as you expected, at least you'll have no remorse of not trying!

Link.

[Greg B]

Link makes a good point - you want to be prepared.

[Hybrid]

I know the feeling but I'm getting better at handling such situations - it does take time though and don't be put off if you have the odd hicup along the way. I once thought I was going to be arrested by the airport police in Northern Ireland but it was all ok when I explained what I was doing (taking a photo of a beautiful Porsche 911 Turbo )

Greg is exactly right... just be confident and thoughtful and you'll be fine.

Good luck!

Stephen

[redline]

well i would say, your suck with what you had at the time being 50 or 200.
I think if your too embarrassed to get up and shoot in front of a large crowd having either lenses would matter. If you were that close to Suzuki prehaps before he got started or during a break prehaps ask him if he doesn't mind photos or if you couldn't ask him directly in person look for the person charge of the show or his pr person, they would be more than happy to help.
But I think what you have to get out your head "is not the what if i shot now... who would say anything" rather than "when is the appropriate time to shoot and how would i achieve this? if i don't pickup the camera now this opportunity might never occur again"

May i also sugguest a good time to take a shot is when the speaker is receiving an applause from the crowd.

[Matt. K]

Dargan
You had the right lens on the camera but the wrong attitiude. Position is everything in photography! A long lens forces you back and all you'll get is the back of the media. A wide angle lens and get very close forces everyone to get behind you...and all they get is your back. There is no law against getting close to your subject...so go for it. The closer you get the more evryone else thinks you are "the special photographer and he must have the right to be there". It's a beautiful game. Do it and damn convention.

[bago100]

Hi Dargan

I know exactly what you went through and am interested in our more experienced members responses. Wow - listening to David Suzuki would be an excellent experience. Well done!

I have a different problem. Everytime I try to take candid shots of family or friends, I usually get rude gestures or poked tongues or people turning away from my camera.

All I am trying to do is capture the moment, and to record the event for possible reminiscing during the years down the track, but the people that I try to photograph don't seem to want to co-operate on candids.

I think if I had a small digital there wouldn't be a problem, but when I use my beloved D70, the sheer looks of the camera seem to overpower the photographic candidates. I find it very disheartening.

Does anyone else experience this or is it just me?

Cheers

Graham

[Matt. K]

bago100
This is a common problem. Pretend to take pics for over an hour or so and then they get bored and act naturally. That's when you get your images. Another solution is to ply them with alchohol...then they will not give a damn.

[Hybrid]

I think family members are amongst the least patient subjects for photography. Probably the best advice is to not give up... Like Matt says, if you do it for long enough and often enough, they'll soon begin to get used to you and start forgetting about the camera (as scary as it may look to them).

There are other techniques that I've read about for getting candids with an SLR. Since you need to obviously point the camera at someone to get their shot and hence attract attention while doing so, you need to be very quick. One suggest trick is to point the camera in another direction as if you are photographing something else and while you are doing that focus at the approximate distance of your victim... err... subject and set the zoom etc. Then, out of the corner of your eye watch them for a good moment and quickly swing the camera around and fire the shot. You may get a rude gesture but hopefully the candid will be captured well before they even realise.

The final thing I find that works well is to show people the best shots of them that they got (DON'T show them unflattering shots!). Some people might pretend to dislike seeing their photo but if you capture them well I'm sure they'll be pleased, even if secretly. Once they trust you and your skills life will hopefully be easier.

Good luck,

Stephen

[Hybrid]

I should add that it might help you if you have a slightly longer lens because then you can be out of the way more and people will notice you less. I have found my 70-210 F4 to be particularly good for situations like this. The thing I really like about it also is the shallow DOF helps you isolate your subject from distracting background elements.

Not everyone agrees though, as this interesting article shows:

http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/Pont ... wards.html

Cheers,

Stephen

[phillipb]

Dargan,
I can recall an embarassing incident as a wedding photographer. I was waiting at the alter for the bride to come up the aisle. The alter was separated by a ballustade from the rest of the church, I was on the alter side of the balustrade in a good position for when the bride would reach the alter. At the last moment a relative of the bride jumped right in fornt of me to take a photo. Instinctively I moved to one side to try and get my photo and in doing so I bumped a crystal vase with flowers and water off the 1 metre ballustrade and onto the marble floor. You can immagine the rest. For a while you feel like all eyes are on you but the priest got on with the job and so did I

[big pix]

when doing press photography many years ago you had to get a picture FIRST then get a MUCH BETTER picture along with a bit of push and shove sometimes
Don't be shy just walk up front get your pix's and walk away

[Onyx]

Dargan, I had you and this thread/topic in mind at a shoot today. I was out at the Stanley markets and came across a performance of Scottish bagpipes band/group. Me being at least 2 feet taller than the rest of the population here, I had to duck down as I crossed in front of the P&S crowd, but I went in with no inhibitions and shot away. We'll see how good the images are when I process them and post tomorrow.

I guess I must have looked more professional with my black D70 and SB800 - the guy with the silver 300D, black vert grip + kit lens stood by the side all the while looking at me (perhaps trying to figure out what's underneath the black tape)

[NB. I have the Nikon logo and pop-up flash area on my D70 covered with duct tape for reasons unknown to myself]

[birddog114]

Dargan, I had you and this thread/topic in mind at a shoot today. I was out at the Stanley markets and came across a performance of Scottish bagpipes band/group. Me being at least 2 feet taller than the rest of the population here, I had to duck down as I crossed in front of the P&S crowd, but I went in with no inhibitions and shot away. We'll see how good the images are when I process them and post tomorrow.

I guess I must have looked more professional with my black D70 and SB800 - the guy with the silver 300D, black vert grip + kit lens stood by the side all the while looking at me (perhaps trying to figure out what's underneath the black tape)

[NB. I have the Nikon logo and pop-up flash area on my D70 covered with duct tape for reasons unknown to myself]

The Hongkong gang may come after you cos they think you're a Jap and doing some R&D with a new yet release Nikon body which many people is guessing and dreaming.

[Dargan]

Thanx for all those replies. Its good to see that many have had similar experiences. It was particularly galling to be reminded of Robert Capa's comment If your photographs aren't good enough, you aren't close enough' especially since I had just finished reading a biography of his life.

Just so you can see the results of my nights work. I have uploaded a few of the pix that weren't too afflicted by the shakes or other gremlins. I am realising just what an amateur I am BTW as I do this.

Here they are

http://www.pixspot.com/albums/userpics/ ... cture1.JPG
http://www.pixspot.com/albums/userpics/ ... cture2.JPG
http://www.pixspot.com/albums/userpics/ ... cture3.JPG
http://www.pixspot.com/albums/userpics/ ... cture4.JPG
http://www.pixspot.com/albums/userpics/ ... igning.jpg

At I did get a few times and try my luck.

[the foto fanatic]

Hi Michael
I saw David Suzuki speak at a conference in Canada in 1995, and thought at the time that he had a very powerful way of presenting an important message.
My wife was with me, and she still quotes from his presentation.
It seems to me that we haven't learned much about caring for the planet in the 10 years since I heard him speak about the environment.
Trevor

[Matt. K]

Hi Dargan
They are not too bad. Next time try.."Great lecture! Mind if I take a couple of photographs for the monthly magazine?". He will most likely turn it on for you.

[Killakoala]

Onyx said---[NB. I have the Nikon logo and pop-up flash area on my D70 covered with duct tape for reasons unknown to myself]

One Saturday morning we discussed this, It's because you saw it in CSI (IIRC)

David Suzuki is a genius when it comes to pollution, global warming, whales and seaweed, but makes cheap crappy cars.