EOS 7D and 100-400 in accident...

[DaveB]

I suppose the point of this post is just that I was careless, but whatever...
Last weekend I had a bunch of people down at Portland for a wildlife photography workshop (it ran from Friday night through to mid-Monday). It went great, and everyone's saying they learnt lots, but that's not the point of this post.

On the Sunday morning we were on some very rocky ground at the base of a hill, shooting up at the birds coming to their nests on the slope above us. The wind behind us was giving the birds lots of lift. Now, a tip for young players:
If you step away from your tripod to assist another photographer, make sure it's not going to blow over in the next gust of wind! By the time we left, the wind was quite fierce and some of the afternoon was spent cleaning salt spray off everyone's gear.

Anyway, the 100-400mm lens took most of the force as the tripod blew over and smashed into a rock! I'm quite tall, so the camera had a long way to fall. The ballhead did move (it wasn't completely locked down) which absorbed some of it, but even so the lens had a nice dint in the side. The 7D body had a few scratches on it (down to the shiny metal in one place, as well as scored across the top LCD). Amazingly the lens still seemed to work, and I was able to take more photos with it across the weekend. Mind you, I found later that the manual focus ring no longer turned... Zooming worked, IS worked, AF worked. Of course it's likely that the optical quality has been compromised...


The scene of the crime (the previous day)...

So this week the camera and lens both went to visit their friends at Canon. They've been shipped off to Sydney as the Melbourne techs are a bit busy with CPS work at the tennis, but hopefully next week I'll have a quote and the insurance company can decide whether to repair or replace. Yay for insurance!

No-one else broke gear on the weekend, just me.
Incidentally, while the 7D is obviously fairly new (it was from the first batch into the country last year) the 100-400 has been part of my kit since 2000 (bought it alongside the EOS D30). Maybe it's time that lens got overhauled anyway...


Meanwhile, a couple of photos from the weekend:

[dviv]

Ouch Dave!

Don't you hate that feeling as something expensive slowly topples and you know there's nothing you can do about it?

On a side note - How have you found the 7D? There have been a few people slagging it off (especially the AF), as well as others getting some incredible shots.

It would be great to hear your thoughts as a wildlife photographer who shoots BIF etc (I assume you do BIF based on the shots above )

[Mr Darcy]

BIF

Birds in flight?
Blokes in ferries?
Bods in focus?

[DaveB]

Don't you hate that feeling as something expensive slowly topples and you know there's nothing you can do about it?

Or in this case, the sound of something going "CRUNCH" behind your back...

On a side note - How have you found the 7D? There have been a few people slagging it off (especially the AF), as well as others getting some incredible shots.

It's great! Once you get the Custom Functions set up right, it's beautiful!
I can lock onto a flying bird with the centre AF point, then the system will track it as it moves around the frame. It's amazing compared to the earlier xxD bodies. And the accuracy isn't bad either...

However, if you're used to the xxxD and xxD AF systems and don't configure the 7D's AF settings to suit you, it can be very confusing to use. I'm sure that's behind some of the whingers out there.

[gstark]

Hi Dave, and welcome back.

That sounds potentially like an expensive accident.

However, if you're used to the xxxD and xxD AF systems and don't configure the 7D's AF settings to suit you, it can be very confusing to use. I'm sure that's behind some of the whingers out there.

I agree. People seem to be way too willing to blame everything else except their own unwillingness to learn how the new gear actually works.

[aim54x]

Welcome back Dave. Great to see the photos from your Artic adventure. Great to hear that you have been loving your 7D, I can imagine that going from the 9pt AF of the XXD and XXXD cameras to the 19pt AF of the 7D would be interesting.

Very sorry to hear about the little accident, hopefully things go well for you in that respect.

[photomarcs]

I suppose the point of this post is just that I was careless, but whatever...

HAHAHA! love that last little add in there.

I can imagine that going from the 9pt AF of the XXD and XXXD cameras to the 19pt AF of the 7D would be interesting.

True, going from an XXD and a XXXD is interesting, You saw me when i first had the 7D Cameron!

The only things that I would say that the 7D has with AF issues is (as I've trialed), is the hilarious joke when it's completely out of focus, yet the 7D says, ITS SHARP!!! TAKE IT!!! *beep beep*

the other thing is, I've trialed this as well, What i set up was the 7D on my table, aimed at another subject ( my AE1), the first frame was dead sharp. Every shot after that tended to lack in that factor though.

However, if you're used to the xxxD and xxD AF systems and don't configure the 7D's AF settings to suit you, it can be very confusing to use. I'm sure that's behind some of the whingers out there.

I agree. People seem to be way too willing to blame everything else except their own unwillingness to learn how the new gear actually works.

I agree and disagree in this sense. ( quite hypocritical i know haha)

There are a gazillion-illion-illion people out there who go yeah! its great! i'll buy it... now why isn't it working like that sales guy showed me? then they blame it on the camera...

I personally have had a major go at the 7D for what it was like to begin with. Everything was foreign in the sense that it did not perform like a D300 would out of the box.

What I personally did like? 9pt zone AF, the fact that the accelerometer could work within the viewfinder, 19pt AF was easier for me to get used to as I'm already used to 1-series cameras, also liked the idea of canon's C1,C2,C3 options, NO AUTOMATIC MODES!!!, weathersealed goodness, custom fn's, 18MP's that are RELATIVELY acceptable in the APS-C size, and for the love of Hansa, that hairpin trigger and the first Canon to actually have anything relatively similar to CLS.

Unless people are going to go out of their way for a camera to work properly ( it this case all of us on DSLRusers ) the 7D is not for consumers. Hence why i agree with the willingness of people to blame tiehr tools.

[bigsarg7]

ouch, i can't well actually i don't want to think of that happening to any of my gear, and my gear is cheap in comparisson to your gear!! thank god for insurance!! lol at least you'll get a new lens i'd say!! when you do a job you do it well!! love the pics though!! especially the shot where the birds just taken off in flight....lovely!!

[gstark]

the 7D is not for consumers.

The modern DSLR (not just the 7D) is a highly technical and very sophisticated set of technologies. I think it's very wrong for people to think that to get the best out of one they can simply take it out of the box and away they go. This is not a t-shirt that you can take out of the packaging and just wear.

Every user has different needs, and each user needs to take some time to familiarise themselves with the features, functionality and implementation details of any new acquisition, and where applicable, customise those features to suit his or her needs and styles of shooting.

I'm not suggesting that you haven't taken those steps, but I do believe that there are many out there who fail to understand what they're dealing with.

[DaveB]

The only things that I would say that the 7D has with AF issues is (as I've trialed), is the hilarious joke when it's completely out of focus, yet the 7D says, ITS SHARP!!! TAKE IT!!! *beep beep*

I've never seen this, but I operate my cameras in AI SERVO where the behaviour's a bit different. I don't have AF tied to the shutter button (just to AF-ON) and use AI SERVO for everything (including static shots. SERVO mode can "hunt" a bit till it settles on the best focus, and I'm always in control of engaging/disengaging the AF using my thumb. I've been working that way for ~9 years now: that bit's not new to the 7D.

What i set up was the 7D on my table, aimed at another subject ( my AE1), the first frame was dead sharp. Every shot after that tended to lack in that factor though.

There are a bunch of settings that can even affect this. Which AF mode were you in for a start? Was it a burst? Was the problem just that different parts of the subject were in focus in each shot? etc, etc.

Hopefully by now you've got a handle on how to control it?

[surenj]

Sorry to hear about your broken gear David. Hope your insurance comes to the party.

[aim54x]

The only things that I would say that the 7D has with AF issues is (as I've trialed), is the hilarious joke when it's completely out of focus, yet the 7D says, ITS SHARP!!! TAKE IT!!! *beep beep*

I've never seen this, but I operate my cameras in AI SERVO where the behaviour's a bit different. I don't have AF tied to the shutter button (just to AF-ON) and use AI SERVO for everything (including static shots. SERVO mode can "hunt" a bit till it settles on the best focus, and I'm always in control of engaging/disengaging the AF using my thumb. I've been working that way for ~9 years now: that bit's not new to the 7D.

What i set up was the 7D on my table, aimed at another subject ( my AE1), the first frame was dead sharp. Every shot after that tended to lack in that factor though.

There are a bunch of settings that can even affect this. Which AF mode were you in for a start? Was it a burst? Was the problem just that different parts of the subject were in focus in each shot? etc, etc.

Hopefully by now you've got a handle on how to control it?

ALRIGHT.....ENOUGH....Marcus has himself a certified DUD 7D that is going to have to be sent back for recalibration (confirmed a Canon Rep). Can we please stop this bickering and finger pointing and the questions as to who can/cant use their cameras???

This has gotten very off topic!

[DaveB]

ALRIGHT.....ENOUGH....Marcus has himself a certified DUD 7D that is going to have to be sent back for recalibration (confirmed a Canon Rep). Can we please stop this bickering and finger pointing and the questions as to who can/cant use their cameras???

<looks around>
Bickering? Finger pointing? I thought we were all in basic agreement...

The camera has done amazing AF things for me.
It's more complex to configure than some earlier EOS bodies.
Some bodies have faults: that's what warranty is for. So your revelation that Marcus's 7D has been confirmed as having a fault is believable. Unfortunately that wasn't clear from Marcus's comments, and I was trying to offer some assistance.

Somehow I don't think the problems with my own 7D will be covered under warranty though.


Anyway, I'll update this when Canon gives me news of my poor babies!

[gstark]

Dave,

Somehow I don't think the problems with my own 7D will be covered under warranty though.

There's no "topplin' tripod" clause in your warranty? Damn, man, you were dudded.

[DaveB]

Updates:

My tripod is a large Gitzo carbon-fibre model, and has LensCoat neoprene-covered foam wraps on the upper leg segments. I've always done that to make it comfortable to carry the extended rig over my shoulder, and to protect the CF from bumps and scratches while collapsed.
While cleaning my tripod recently (it had salt residue up inside the legs from use by the seaside) when I took the LensCoat covers off (one of them had scored a direct hit of gannet guano) I noticed that the foam around one leg had a big slice into it. Looks like the LensCoat saved my tripod from damage in the accident!

Also, Canon finally came back with a quote for repair of the 7D and lens (~$1300 for both). That $200 excess on the insurance policy looks pretty good right now, although I'm now waiting for the insurer to pay up. Hopefully it will all go smoothly and quickly.

[gstark]

Dave,

PP1300 for the two is not too bad, given how you described the damage.

[surenj]

Hopefully it will all go smoothly and quickly

Fingers crossed for you Dave.

[DaveB]

Apparently they're paying up.
"The cheque will be in the mail"...

[Matt. K]

Dave
A Scotsman, an Englishman and a Czechoslovakian went bear hunting. After many fruitless hours of wandering through the forest they came upon a large cave with signs of bear habitation around it. The Scot and the Pom were most reluctant to enter but the Czechoslovakian was a reckless type and decided he would go in and perhaps shoot a bear. After many minutes of silence the 2 men outside the cave heard a loud commotion and then a terrible scream. Almost immediately a large bear came out of the cave, its fur covered in blood and the 2 terrified men ran for their lives, shocked at the fate that befell their friend. They ran all the way back to the nearest village and reported the matter to the local police constable. He decided to accompany the men back to the cave to see if he could retrieve a body and perhaps kill the man-eating bear. After many hours of searching through the woods they finally located the cave and, after resting for awhile, the police constable said, "Let's go in and find your friend and punish that bear". Gingerly they crept into the cave, the Scot holding a dim torch, and eventually came upon 2 very large bears soundly sleeping....a very old male and a somewhat smaller female. "I am only permitted to kill a bear if it has killed a human", said the police constable. "Which one is the bear that ate your friend?". "We can't tell", said the 2 men...."They both look very similar". Upon hearing that the police constable raised his rifle and shot the older male through the head. It died almost immediately. "How did you know it was that bear?" said the Scotsman. "Easy", said the policeman. "Everyone knows that the Czech is always in the male".

[DaveB]

[DaveB]

"The cheque will be in the mail"...

And now I'm taking the cheque to the bank this afternoon!

For those who are interested, my policy is with AMP Commercial Insurance (it's part of my overall business insurance).

[Matt. K]

The best promotion they could get. Well done AMP! When I'm ready to get my gear re-insured then I know whom to seriously consider.

[ozimax]

Matt, even though Noah used to tell this joke to his three sons, it's still a good one!

[gstark]

AMP is my olde alma mata.

I used to work there - for the F&G company, of which commercial would be a part - way back when I was but a young stripling of a man.

[who]

AMP is my olde alma mata.

I used to work there - for the F&G company, of which commercial would be a part - way back when I was but a young stripling of a man.

Oh Gary..... any other confessions you need to make - other than being an insurance salesman???

I'm about to get organised and find out how my home policy likes to pay on 28-70 f2.8 lenses.....

[gstark]

AMP is my olde alma mata.

I used to work there - for the F&G company, of which commercial would be a part - way back when I was but a young stripling of a man.

Oh Gary..... any other confessions you need to make - other than being an insurance salesman???

Nothing to confess to, Ian; I wasn't in sales.

I was in the back orifices ... underwriting and accounting, mainly. And up to mid-level mis-management, and IT.

[DaveB]

Sigh. Just checked with Canon, and they're still waiting for parts!

Probably another fortnight before I get the lens back. The 7D should be ready soon though: I'm looking forward to having it back!
Just as well I've got another body to work with in the meantime...

[tcssas]

Hi Dave,

What Tripod to use for this setup(EOS 7D and 100-400)?

I am new and considering following budget options:

http://www.adorama.com/VGTB200.html
Or
http://www.adorama.com/VGTRACKER4.html (Inclined towards this but weight is really an issue)

Please guide.

Thanks in advance.

[photomarcs]

Sigh. Just checked with Canon, and they're still waiting for parts!

Probably another fortnight before I get the lens back. The 7D should be ready soon though: I'm looking forward to having it back!
Just as well I've got another body to work with in the meantime...

I'm hoping you've got your 7 back by now...

[DaveB]

Yeah, I did get it back OK and it's great. Took 2 months in total though.

[DaveB]

tcssas, where are you located? You should set a meaningful location in your profile (as per the forum rules).
It's unusual (although not a problem) for people around to go straight to ordering from Adorama, so I'm wondering if you're in the US?

I am new and considering following budget options:

http://www.adorama.com/VGTB200.html
Or
http://www.adorama.com/VGTRACKER4.html (Inclined towards this but weight is really an issue)

I must admit I hate questions like this, as my own tripods are carbon fibre, and the heads I use are part of the Arca-Swiss QR system, and this definitely isn't "budget".

At first glance though those tripod legs look reasonable. My default recommendation (mainly because they're commonly available) is to point beginner students to something like the Manfrotto 190 series.
As far as heads go, I'd stay away from 3-way heads such as in the second link you provided. They're just too unwieldy with a telephoto lens. A ballhead works well, especially if it's one you can loosen slightly so you can reposition the head while following your subject.

After all, for good long-lens technique you'll have your right hand gripping the camera and your left hand on the lens (with that lens I tend to put my hand underneath so I can easily both zoom and focus, and hook my pinky on the lens foot for stability - on bigger telephotos it's often better to rest your left hand on top of the lens). This is important to reduce vibrations: don't believe any hype that you'd get better results by standing back with a remote release. It's not too much hardship to move your left hand down to adjust the ballhead and then back up to the lens (i.e. without having to take your eye away from the viewfinder and losing your subject) but that's a complete mess with a 3-way head.

That Vanguard ballhead could be OK, but I don't have experience with it to tell you yes/no.

But if you get that Vanguard setup, I expect that if you stay with photography you'll want to upgrade it sooner rather than later. You've spent lots of money on a great camera and lens, so I don't think it's fair to them to skimp out and spend a tiny amount on a support for them. The smallest head I'd use it on would be an RRS BH40, which is more than 3x the cost of that Vanguard head+legs combo. Then add the tripod legs in, and the QR plates for your camera and your lens, and the cost keeps going up.
Maybe you can start with that cheap setup and expect to sell it 2nd-hand to another beginner later on when you'll have clearer ideas of what features you're after. But I'd stay away from 3-way heads with telephoto lenses!

[surenj]

Check out the Manfrotto configurator.

http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/news/sit ... r3/lang/en

I would strongly suggest Manfrotto as the prices may be similar for what you are looking.

Although I have had great milage from a $79 tripod bought over 8 years ago, I don't think you should push your luck with this. Get one good tripod (and perhaps head) and you don't have to look again for about 30 yrs or so.

[tcssas]

Yes Dave, I am in US and have updated the profile accordingly.

Sorry for the cheap question to someone great like you...

But Thanks for the invaluable advice!

I have ordered
Manfrotto 190XPROB Pro Aluminum Tripod Legs - $149.90
Manfrotto 496RC2 Compact Ball Head with RC2 QR Plate - $84.50
(I will get $25 rebate for this purchase which is valid till 30-Jun-2010 - This can be useful for the other readers)

I hope this will support my 7D+100-400mm+1.4x TC.

[DaveB]

Yes Dave, I am in US and have updated the profile accordingly.

Well, not quite.
If you update the "Location" field (go to User Control Panel -> Profile) it will show up under your name in the forums. It's blank at the moment.

I have ordered
Manfrotto 190XPROB Pro Aluminum Tripod Legs - $149.90
Manfrotto 496RC2 Compact Ball Head with RC2 QR Plate - $84.50

I haven't seen that head before (although I am familiar with the 486 it replaces) but looking at the pictures it has a second knob (as well as the ball-loosening knob). Unfortunately I think it's just a friction-control for adjusting the ball, not a separate pan control. This means that when you loosen the ball because you want to pan (e.g. for a panorama) you've loosened the whole head. That can be OK, but it can be limiting too.
I think the 498RC2 (US$130 at Adorama) might be a better bet: it seems to have a separate pan control and is also a tiny bit beefier. I wouldn't want to use a head smaller than the 496 with your kit for sure.

Overall I'd say that's a fairly safe and reliable setup for starting out (with the caveat that the 498 head might be better). It cost more than the Vanguard you were looking at, but there's probably a good reason for that!

You may wish to also pick up a second 200PL-14 plate (the RC2 heads will come with one) so you can leave one plate attached to your camera and the other attached to the lens. These plates are prone to twisting/etc (one area where the Arca-Swiss system is definitely superior) but they're better than nothing, and a quick-release system isn't "quick" if you need to keep moving a single plate between body and lens as you use different lenses.
It's a tiny investment: US$10.95 at Adorama (note that I think the Manfrotto part number "200PL-14" matches the Bogen 3157N name used in the USA - just search for "200PL-14" and you should get there anyway).

(I will get $25 rebate for this purchase which is valid till 30-Jun-2010 - This can be useful for the other readers)

Probably only available for purchasers with postal addresses within the U.S.

I hope this will support my 7D+100-400mm+1.4x TC.

Hmmm. You didn't mention the 1.4x earlier. Have you actually used the 1.4x with that lens? It works, but it's not the nicest setup.
The load should be OK (especially as you'll also be holding the camera/lens while it's on the tripod - as I described above). Using the lens' tripod ring to switch to vertical views means the weight stays directly above the head rather than being out to the side (the same benefit we get with L-brackets).

I hope this helps!

[tcssas]

Thanks a ton for the guidance Dave !!!

Will follow the advice. But it has completely changed my equations and this is no more a budget solution but is reliable and worth it as it will be supporting much expensive equipments.

Thanks
Sachin

[tcssas]

I have updated my order to get the head suggested by you.

[gstark]

You may wish to also pick up a second 200PL-14 plate (the RC2 heads will come with one) so you can leave one plate attached to your camera and the other attached to the lens.

Great advice, Dave.

(note that I think the Manfrotto part number "200PL-14" matches the Bogen 3157N name used in the USA - just search for "200PL-14" and you should get there anyway).

Correct. Manfrotto is marketed as the Bogen brand in the US.

and this is no more a budget solution but is reliable and worth it as it will be supporting much expensive equipments.

Actually, it is a budget solution. You need to consider how many times you want to spend your money on the same equipment. With tripods, you can spend your funds many times over, first of all spending $30 on a really cheap tripod, which won't even do duty as a paperweight, and then a further $130 on a cheap tripod, which doesn't do the job, then spending another $200 on a medium grade tripod, which will do about half of what you want, and then you spend $300 - $800 on the tripod that you need, which is the tripod that you should have bought in the first place.

The 190 is a good unit and should serve you well. Consider that, rather than being over your budget, you are actually saving yourself about $350 by buying something that is better and more suited to your needs for today and well into the future.