Hello & lens adapter question

[daniel5600]

Hello all,
Im Daniel from Sydney. Im no professional still photographer, but enjoy quality photos. I work in television.

I have a question strait up, hope someone can help...

I have access to a Nikon D40X.
I am saving to buy a Canon 7D and Sigma 70-200 2.8.

I cant afford the 7D body for a while, but can afford the lens right now, so, if i buy the Sigma lens, with a canon mount (for the 7D). Can i temporarily get an adaptor to use the lens on the Nikon while i keep saving?

From what ive read, i understand Nikon lenses cant attach to a Canon due to focal issues and such, but thought maybe because its Sigma, its designed differently (as they make both mounts)?

[Killakoala]

Welcome to the forum Daniel.

Sigma (and Tokina) both make lenses in both Canon and Nikon mounts. It is true that it is possible to obtain an adapter to allow the use of NIKON lenses on a CANON mount, but not CANON lenses on a NIKON mount. This is due to the physical lengths of the optics in the lens protruding into the camera body, or so I believe. I also believe that if you were to put a Nikon lens on a Canon camera, you will have to focus and adjust aperture manually. I am not sure how metering is affected,

I hope a Canon user who has tried this can elaborate further.

[daniel5600]

Yeah thats what ive read so far. the manual thing is fine, as it would just be temporary. Was just hopeing that since Sigma make both lense types, they had done something special in their glass.

i guess ill just have to stick it out and wait till i can afford the body too.

[kiwi]

Of course the smart thing to do will be to buy the Nikon mount Sigma and use on the d40x while you save - and save for a d300s instead

[daniel5600]

haha thanks kiwi. i was throwing up between the D300S and 7D for a long time, doing lots of investigating, but would prefer the 7D, i think, unless someone can change my mind?......

[kiwi]

Well, Nikon is clearly better given your circumstances and my declared bias

Im not sure there is much between the two bodies really.

A choice might depend more on what lenses/genre you are after longer term

[daniel5600]

Honestly, there wasnt much between the two of them, you have me reconsidering now.

The reason i was leaning to 7D is its a higher MP and faster shutter; i believe the Nikon has a slightly bigger sensor? but from test i found, i didnt see any improvement on low light capability.

The lenses dont really matter, im not pro, im not going for crazy good lenses, basically ill just have..
70-200 2.8
2X muliplier
and some sort of wide lens
So brand doesnt really matter on that front.

[kiwi]

This may help

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Im ... 2%29/Canon

[daniel5600]

thats cool, thanks. doesnt fucking help though haha, just makes it more complicated. i might go check out the D300S tomorrow again, it might be the right way to go, then i can get the Sigma with Nikon mount and use on the D40X aswell

[kiwi]

a bird in hand is worth two in the bush and all that

[gstark]

Hi Daniel, and welcome.

What part of Sydney are you in? Could you please put that (suburb, state) into your profile? Many thanks.

I have access to a Nikon D40X.
I am saving to buy a Canon 7D and Sigma 70-200 2.8.

I cant afford the 7D body for a while, but can afford the lens right now, so, if i buy the Sigma lens, with a canon mount (for the 7D). Can i temporarily get an adaptor to use the lens on the Nikon while i keep saving?

No, that won't work.

From what ive read, i understand Nikon lenses cant attach to a Canon due to focal issues and such, but thought maybe because its Sigma, its designed differently (as they make both mounts)?

No, you have this the wrong way around.

The issue is the distance between the lens mount flange and the focal plane, both as presented to the lens by any given body. Nikon bodies are thicker than Canon bodies, and because you cannot make a lens any shallower, no lens made for any current or recent Canon body can fit onto, and focus, onto any current or recent Nikon body.

it is possible to purchase an adapter that will permit you to fit a Nikon lens onto a Canon body, but in the main, why would you? You have no auto anything, so unless the glass is amazingly good, there is really nothing in the equation for you.

But let's take a step back for a moment: you currently have access to a D40x. Great camera; but I presume from how you've worded this, it's not your's. Why a 7D? Why not a 550D?

Or a Nikon D300s? That would let you use any glass that the D40x has.

Have you had a play with any of those bodies? If so, what were your reactions? If not, why not?

[gstark]

I'll play.

The reason i was leaning to 7D is its a higher MP

What do you think you might gain from higher MP? Seriously, and from a practical PoV?

and faster shutter;

Really???

Again (and still playing devil's advocate) what do you believe this will gain for you?

i believe the Nikon has a slightly bigger sensor? but from test i found, i didnt see any improvement on low light capability.

What test?

More importantly, what will you be shooting?

The lenses dont really matter,

Yes they do.

im not pro, im not going for crazy good lenses, basically ill just have..
70-200 2.8
2X muliplier

Probably better with the 1.4 TC; the 2x compromise IQ way too much. And once you start shooting, you will be wanting good IQ.

[daniel5600]

Ok, ill try answer all of that.....

Im in Northmead, Sydney, NSW (for those that didnt know Sydney was in NSW)
ill update these onto my profile shortly, i only joined last night, still working on this.

No, you have this the wrong way around.

oops sorry, my wording mistake, i meant Canon mount on Nikon, been answered though.

But let's take a step back for a moment: you currently have access to a D40x. Great camera; but I presume from how you've worded this, it's not your's. Why a 7D? Why not a 550D?
Or a Nikon D300s? That would let you use any glass that the D40x has.

The D40x is my girlfriends, i want a better camera. the 550D is not good enough for what i want, im buying the best camera i have the money for, which right now is 7D/D300S. like i said in above posts, im leaning to the D300S now due to lens swapping abilities.

Have you had a play with any of those bodies? If so, what were your reactions? If not, why not?

Yes, used the Canons properly, and played around with the Nikons at a store. my reactions were to the Canon, i preferred its usability and a few minor spec details. but like im saying, due to lens swapping, Nikon might be a better choice.

I'll play.

What does this mean?

What do you think you might gain from higher MP? Seriously, and from a practical PoV?

I will probably be cropping a bit and playing around with cropped images of motorsport, itd be nice to have some more MP for that

and faster shutter;
Really??? Again (and still playing devil's advocate) what do you believe this will gain for you?

Yes, the faster the better, i will be shooting motorbike racing and to capture a split second corner moment right that human reactions cant, its nice to have a motor drive that has a better chance.

i believe the Nikon has a slightly bigger sensor? but from test i found, i didnt see any improvement on low light capability.
What test?

I dont remember, why? do you have a test thats better? i read about 5 different tests with image results, the sites for these tests were forwarded to me from some photographer friends.

More importantly, what will you be shooting?

Everything, but i want it to perform well for motorbike racing

The lenses dont really matter,
Yes they do.

dont be a tool, read what i wrote in context, im not saying a lens isnt important, i was just pointing out that whether i got Nikon or Canon, i wasnt going to suffer because the image quality of that brand lens isnt as good as the other. both the Canon and Nikon 70-200mm 2.8 lenses are both fucking good, the difference is so minuscule. this is irrelevant anyway, im buying a Sigma 70-200 2.8, so like i said, the lens doesnt matter, it will not be a factor in camera choice.

Probably better with the 1.4 TC; the 2x compromise IQ way too much. And once you start shooting, you will be wanting good IQ.

Ok, do you have any comparison tests/references you suggest i look at? most of my shooting will be without the extender, this is only for now and then if i need that bit extra. Id prefer to lose a little image quality for the extra distance, obviously depending on how much quality is lost, so if you have some samples, send them my way.

[Pa]

I have the 80-200mm and a x2 Kenko converter..the image quality is rubbish with the converter [C A]...

I'm not sure what the sigma converters are like but i would assume with x2 the images would not be as good...

Some more information...Don't swear..

[daniel5600]

Thanks Pa,
Do you have any examples on the net with the 2x i could see?

[gstark]

Im in Northmead, Sydney, NSW (for those that didnt know Sydney was in NSW)

The problem is twofold, and it's probably not that people don't know where Sydney might be.

Sydney (and Melbourne, and most of our capital cities) is a pretty big city. Our members here are very helpful, and will go out of their way to assist you with issues that you might have. Knowing more specifically where, in Sydney, or Melbourne, or whereever, you might be can help those who might wish to help you. Somebody from Parramatta seeing your post might offer to meet you for lunch or a beer and work with you to help over come a technical issue that you might be seeing. If they don't know that you're local to them, you may as well be in Perth.

Which is the second point here: those in Perth may know that Sydney is in NSW, but they might not be aware that Northmead is in NSW. Equally, if you're in Richmond, is that Richmond NSW or Richmond, Vict?

ill update these onto my profile shortly, i only joined last night, still working on this.

Yep; I can see that you're doing this, and that is good.

No, you have this the wrong way around.

oops sorry, my wording mistake, i meant Canon mount on Nikon, been answered though.

Actually, I think that you had said what you meant to say; I was trying to say that it was the other way around: you can mount a Nikon lens on a Canon body, but you cannot mount a Canon (mount) lens on a Nikon body.

The D40x is my girlfriends, i want a better camera. the 550D is not good enough for what i want, im buying the best camera i have the money for, which right now is 7D/D300S. like i said in above posts, im leaning to the D300S now due to lens swapping abilities.

The ability to be able to swap lenses with your girlfriend is an important factor, but it should not be the primary one. It's merely one point of consideration. One of many.

Have you had a play with any of those bodies? If so, what were your reactions? If not, why not?

Yes, used the Canons properly, and played around with the Nikons at a store. my reactions were to the Canon, i preferred its usability and a few minor spec details. but like im saying, due to lens swapping, Nikon might be a better choice.

Here's where it gets muddy. You preferred the usability of the Canon. That, to me, is a very important factor. How many lenses does your girlfriend have for the D40x? If she only has a couple of kit lenses, then the ability to swap lenses becomes somewhat of a moot point.

I'm not saying don't get the Nikon: hell, when I cut myself, I bleed yellow and black stuff, such is the length of time I've been using Nikon gear. What I am saying is that you should consider all of the factors, and then make what will be the correct decision, for you.

That might end up being Nikon, because you can share glass. Or perhaps you may decide that you still prefer Canon, and go down that path.

Either choice is valid, and correct, but it has to be your choice, and it's best made with due consideration of all of the facts.

I'll play.

What does this mean?

It means that we need to examine the questions and answers somewhat more closely; some of the questions don't seem to properly framed, or perhaps appear to be coming from a marketing, rather than a photographic, perspective.

What do you think you might gain from higher MP? Seriously, and from a practical PoV?

I will probably be cropping a bit and playing around with cropped images of motorsport, itd be nice to have some more MP for that

Ok, a good answer. Extra MP may be useful here, but so too is getting good glass: the best you can afford. And I would venture to suggest that using good glass, perhaps with higher magnification, will be more useful than more MP.

Also, getting closer to the action, although this can sometimes be challenging, depending upon the venue and the event.

and faster shutter;
Really??? Again (and still playing devil's advocate) what do you believe this will gain for you?

Yes, the faster the better, i will be shooting motorbike racing and to capture a split second corner moment right that human reactions cant, its nice to have a motor drive that has a better chance.

Ok. You're not really wanting a faster shutter here, but a higher fps rate. Both the 7D and D300s will give you about 8FPS; and while both offer up to 1/8000 maximum shutter speed, it's actually quite rare that you'll be using that, even for shooting motorsports.

Often, you will want a much lower shutter speed in order to impart the feel of movement into your images. Panning shots are a great example of this, and likewise, you may want to consider that a slow-ish shutter speed will let you see rotational movement in the wheels, but you can still get fairings etc in sharp focus.

i believe the Nikon has a slightly bigger sensor? but from test i found, i didnt see any improvement on low light capability.
What test?

I dont remember, why? do you have a test thats better? i read about 5 different tests with image results, the sites for these tests were forwarded to me from some photographer friends.

May I ask why you are being so defensive? Nobody here is attacking you. I was curious: I often find that tests that are performed have very little bearing on the real world usage of the cameras, and thus their results may need to be ... discounted somewhat.

Further, you've now stated that you have an interest in motorsports photography, but you've also mentioned low-light capability. Most motorsports are carried out during the day, often in bright sunlight. Even in heavy rain, a camera's low-light capabilities might not be quite as important for this sort of shooting scenario.

More importantly, what will you be shooting?

Everything, but i want it to perform well for motorbike racing

Everything?

I accept that you want it for motorbike racing; great. What else comprises "everything"? Portraits? Landscapes? Still life? Artistic nudes? Studio work? Bands in pubs? Medical or industrial photography?

I'm not trying to have a go at you; our goal here is to answer your question, and to try to help guide you to the best purchase for your needs. A good salesperson would be asking the same questions.

The lenses dont really matter,
Yes they do.

dont be a tool,

Now might be a good time for you to have a quick look at the section below my avatar here. The bit where it says "Site Admin". It might also be a good time for you to review our FAQ and forum rules, especially the parts where it says that you are not to engage in any form of personal attacks, nor in flaming other users.

A lot of other sites may tolerate that sort of behaviour. We are not "other sites".

Any statement suggesting that lenses "don't matter" needs to be taken to task. There is nothing that is more important to a photographer than his glass.

You choose your camera system based upon the body - whether you prefer to work with Nikon or Canon ergonomics. But you then buy the glass within that system, and when it's time to upgrade, you keep your glass, and upgrade your bodies. It's the glass that represents the mainstay of your investment, and thus the glass is the most important part of your kit.

i was just pointing out that whether i got Nikon or Canon, i wasnt going to suffer because the image quality of that brand lens isnt as good as the other. both the Canon and Nikon 70-200mm 2.8 lenses are both fucking good,

Again, there is no need for you be adopt such a defensive posture in your message. Yes, whether you're using Nikon or Canon glass doesn't really matter. May I ask what the benefit of your use of the word "fucking" was here? Did it actually add anything useful to the content or conversation?

But in your original post you were discussing the option of purchasing the Sigma 70-200. A good lens, in skilled hands, but not really (IMHO) up to the build quality and image standards offered by the Canon or Nikon.

For your stated purpose - motorsports - any of these lenses should work for you, but you now raise an interesting point: is the Sigma going to be a stepping stone for you, or do you expect it to be a primary lens in your collection.

[DaveB]

Probably better with the 1.4 TC; the 2x compromise IQ way too much. And once you start shooting, you will be wanting good IQ.

Ok, do you have any comparison tests/references you suggest i look at? most of my shooting will be without the extender, this is only for now and then if i need that bit extra. Id prefer to lose a little image quality for the extra distance, obviously depending on how much quality is lost, so if you have some samples, send them my way.

My experience with 1.4x and 2x converters from Sigma, Kenko, Canon, and even Nikon can be summarised as:

You'll get better quality from using a 1.4x TC and later cropping the photo, than you will from using a 2x TC. The fact that your lens/TC combination will be a whole stop brighter won't hurt either, especially if you want fast shutter speeds and good AF.

I understand that the "feel" of the 7D/5D/5DmkII/50D/40D/30D/etc family is quite different from the xxxD bodies, and thus you might want to avoid the cheaper bodies (with no rear wheel, for example). As a Canon user myself I do think the 7D is an excellent choice . As Gary points out, the lenses that your girlfriend has on the D40x might not be important enough to play a big role in your decision.
I'm guessing that you're just impatient because you know what you want but just can't afford it yet. Sometimes you need to compromise when you're starting. One possibility might be to buy a good 70-200mm/2.8 and a 2nd-hand 40D or 50D, with a plan to buy a 7D when you can afford it (and possibly flog the 40D/50D off again for minimal loss) and add a 1.4x TC when you can afford it.

[aim54x]

Just my 2c.

Between Canon and Nikon there is not much to pick. I would go with the one that feels better in my hands and seems more logical to use. In terms of glass...can I point out that Nikon has a nice 1.7x which will give you more range than a 1.4x and better quality than a 2x.

Both the EOS 7D and the D300s are great utility machines, so they will perform well for all applications.

In terms of testing, please note that studio tests do not hold up in real world. In a studio you are capable of giving a sensor more than enough light at high iso's, this is not true in real world shooting, so do try to have a look at real world shots at higher iso's before judging low light performance.

[Mr Darcy]

You'll get better quality from using a 1.4x TC and later cropping the photo, than you will from using a 2x TC.

An excellent rule of thumb Dave. But from the reviews I've seen, the one exception is the new Nikon 70-200 teamed with the new (SeriesIII) 2x Nikon converter See here for example
He says in part

B. With the 2.0x TC-20EIII: After using the 70-200mm VRII with the "new" (as of February 2010) 2x TC-20EIII teleconverter, one has to wonder if Nikon "co-designed" these two parts to work together. While there is some image softness when this lens/teleconverter combination is shot wide open (which translates to f5.6), stopping down just one stop returns almost all image sharpness. There is a slight decrease in image contrast and colour, but with careful processing these parameters can be returned to the "non-teleconverter" state. Autofocus speed does seem to be slightly impaired (i.e., slightly slower) when the TC is used and focus-tracking on rapidly moving subjects lags slightly compared to when no TC is used, but for MOST shooting the difference would be virtually unnoticeable.

This from a person who generally regards teleconverters as expensive paperweights.

OP:
1. Please don't swear. All it achieves is to get others off side. If you get ignored, you may as well not post. In case you are not aware, "tool" and "fuck" are both swear words within the context you used them. There are other contexts where they are not swear words, but not here. If you cannot say what you want without using them, get (and use!) a dictionary.
2. Choose your brand according to what suits YOUR hands & mind. For me, its Nikon, for others its Canon & others again, it's Pentax, or even Sony (Please don't hit me Gary). Play with them to decide what suits you
3. Remember whatever body you buy, it will be discarded sooner than later.
4. Whatever glass you buy, you will have it for a long time.
ie the body is much less important than the glass. But the brand is what you will be stuck with, so choose that most carefully of all.

[aim54x]

2. Choose your brand according to what suits YOUR hands & mind. For me, its Nikon, for others its Canon & others again, it's Pentax, or even Sony (Please don't hit me Gary). Play with them to decide what suits you
3. Remember whatever body you buy, it will be discarded sooner than later.
4. Whatever glass you buy, you will have it for a long time.
ie the body is much less important than the glass. But the brand is what you will be stuck with, so choose that most carefully of all.

great advice there.... about the Sony + Gary comment....can I add Samsung to this equation?

[daniel5600]

aim54x
yeah thanks, i have been searching a lot of tests, and done some myself, like you say, they are both great bodies and very closely matched.

DaveB
Thanks for the info on extenders, i just went and tested some. the swapping lens issue is not important at all, youre right saying im just impatient. i will probably never use my girlfriends lenses after i get the camera body, i have been looking at getting a cheap 40d like you said, that i could sell later. we'll see.

Mr Darcy
Thanks for the info about that extender.

gstark
the location thing in my opinion is stupid, but respect the sites rules, i dont think anyone should have to disclose their suburb, it is not important at all, if they want to be contacted for a beer, they will advise their location. anyway, whatever, your rules, happy to abide.

I did want to mount a canon lens on nikon body, but it has been stated that i cant, that was the original question.

Like i said to DaveB, swapping lenses with my girlfriend is not important at all, it is purely because i was thinking of buying the lens a couple months before the body. not an issue though, if i get canon, ill just have to wait.

I am getting the best glass i can, i understand this.

By saying faster shutter, i meant faster FPS, sorry, just a wording mistake on my part from being tired. the canon argues its slightly faster than the nikon (8fps, rather than 7fps). again though, not a big factor as its so minimal.

Yes i will be shooting everything, motorsport, portraits, landscapes, sudio, bands, industrial....

haha, good sales person comment made me laugh, i just came back from the city, where by being in a store asking a question, you are interrupting the sales persons day and taking up their time.

I didnt personally attack you, i asked you not to be a tool, which is not a swear word, you implied that i thought the earth was flat. i asked you to read my comment about lenses in context.
The fact that youre a site admin means nothing to me.

the word fucking is an expressive word, i used it to express, its the way i talk, someone asked me not to on this site, and i wont, end of story.

the rest is just going in circles.

Thank you for any advice youve given me, but please dont assume i know nothing.

[gstark]

the location thing in my opinion is stupid,

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

But I suspect that those members here who have been able to yell for help because of some need at short notice, been able to borrow an expensive lens or body from someone whom they knew to be close, been able to meet with someone local in order to help troubleshoot a problem with a newly acquired piece of kit, or who have had some other issue addressed quickly and with minimal pain because of the availability of proximate help might be inclined to disagree with you.

How about if you're traveling interstate, and you've left home without your charger for your camera battery. Where might you be able to grab one from? It's happened, and our members have been only too happy to be able to help other members out.

i dont think anyone should have to disclose their suburb,

Again, I'll play. My suburb is listed as Bondi. It's not an issue for me, and it's also not an issue were I to have said Bondi Beach, or North Bondi.

Or Bondi Junction. South Bondi. Bronte. Tamarama. Rose Bay. Waverley.

You tell us that you're in Northmead. Perhaps you're in Westmead.

Parramatta? Merrylands? Wentworthville? Pendle Hill?

Who's to know? It's giving a reasonable but relatively close answer, near enough for our purposes. We have yet to invoke the "suburb police" on any member, In getting on to close to six years' existence and with about 4000 members, we've found this to be of more use than not.

As I've already stated, nobody here is attacking you, nobody will attack you and nobody here is looking to take advantage of you. If you have any sort of belief to the contrary, please PM with evidence of this, but otherwise, this is a vibrant and trusting community, and you will do well to listen and learn from those who are willing to offer you their advice.

Oh yes, nobody is forcing you to accept it, either; you make your own judgment calls on all of this.

I am getting the best glass i can, i understand this.

Good.

the canon argues its slightly faster than the nikon (8fps, rather than 7fps). again though, not a big factor as its so minimal.

Actually, the D300s, with the battery grip, is also 8fps.

But yes, the difference, like megapixels, really don't matter.

What matters is getting the exposure right. Getting the composition right. Getting the image as sharp as possible. You can always degrade it later.

Make sure that you have good grasp of the basics, and that you have a good understanding of how your camera nad its accessories operate, and how they all work together.

Yes, you might be able to make good images without that knowledge, but they'll be so much better again if you truly do understand what you're doing.

Yes i will be shooting everything, motorsport, portraits, landscapes, sudio, bands, industrial....

And do you expect to be getting paid for this? I get the feeling that the answer will be yes, but that's just a guess on my part; I'm curious.

haha, good sales person comment made me laugh, i just came back from the city, where by being in a store asking a question, you are interrupting the sales persons day and taking up their time.

It depends upon the store, the salesperson ... many factors. There are some who are excellent, and some who don't understand the difference between shutter speed and ISO. The trick is figuring out which of those you're talking with.

I didnt personally attack you, i asked you not to be a tool, which is not a swear word,

Actually, no. Several points here. I did not suggest it was a swear word, that was another member. But you did not "ask" me to not be a tool; you instructed me. At best, it, combined with other language that you used in your post, was somewhat disrespectful to me.

Being disrespectful is considered to be akin to attacking someone. Here, at any rate. Again, this is all very clearly stated in the FAQ, and the reaction of other members to your use of certain language strongly suggests that perhaps my position has some support from others here.

Bottom line is that those are the rules here, and we do expect everyone here to be civil and respectful to everyone else. It's really quite a simple rule, isn't it?

you implied that i thought the earth was flat. i asked you to read my comment about lenses in context.
The fact that youre a site admin means nothing to me.

I made no such implication, and as I explained, your statement was one that goes to the heart of camera usage.

The fact that I'm a site admin means nothing to you? Perhaps it should. If you think a site like this is public, please think again. This is a private site that permits limited public access. Who pays the hosting and site costs for it, and who pays for the domain name registration? When something goes wrong with the site, who fixes it?

the word fucking is an expressive word, i used it to express, its the way i talk, someone asked me not to on this site, and i wont, end of story.

Many consider the word to be offensive and unnecessary in general conversation, but excellent. There are many ways to be expressive. Creative use of the English language is considered by many to be way better than to just pull a couple of common expletives out of one's hat. You will win many more friends here, and great deal of respect, through creative expression rather than just mouthing off.

Thank you for any advice youve given me, but please dont assume i know nothing.

To my knowledge, nobody has made any such assumptions, but please help us: from your questions, you appear to have no DSLR of your own, and your questions also indicate that you have no glass. Do you have a background in film photography? What photographic experience and background do you have?

By giving us better insight into your experience and background, we will be better equipped to talk with you at a level that is better suited to your skill level. You have not told us anything about that, so please, we would all appreciate being better able to help you.

It's really up to you to let us help you.