UNBIASED REPORTING ON BRAND RELIABILITY

[OlderShutterBug]

I went to buy a DSLR today and something rare happened -- the salesman steered me away from Nikon, but didn't try to sell me anything else.

He told me Nikon has had a lot of problems with quality in recent years, with both DSLR's and point-and-shoots, mentioning the D90, D3000, D5000. He said his store (Best Buy) gets more Nikon product returned than any other. He said it's because Nikon moved its manufacturing plants to Indonesia, Thailand, and Vietnam. However, I'm not seeing anything like that being mentioned ANYWHERE on ANY website.

What have you heard?? Any truth to this?

I'd like to buy a Nikon DSLR for some medium-duty advanced-amature shooting since all of my old 35mm film camera gear is Nikon and I can continue to use the lenses, and a Nikon point-and-shoot for the glass and other features and designs.

Secondly, does anyone know of any great, unbiased websites that are reporting on this issue of brand reliability?? I can't find one anywhere.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts...
the oldershutterbug

[gstark]

He said his store (Best Buy) gets more Nikon product returned than any other. He said it's because Nikon moved its manufacturing plants to Indonesia, Thailand, and Vietnam.

Hi, and welcome. You're in the US? Could you please oblige us by putting your location into your profile; please review the pink section immediately above your post.

While Best Buy is a great place to buy stuff, its certainly not a store where I'd place a high level of confidence into their sales staff, and especially when it comes to a specialist product like any sort of DSLR.

My suspicion would be that most of the returns would be due to user issues: either the use was oversold in terms of the camera that they needed - DSLRs are more expensive than PHDs, and thus the salesperson enjoys a greater incentive to sell the DSLR - and/or the user doesn't understand how to use a DSLR, and thus returns it as "faulty" whereas it's really the user that's faulty.

Nikon have been making cameras in Thailand for a number of years, and I am unaware of any problems arising with cameras made in that facility; I am unaware of Nikon cameras being made in Indonesia or Vietnam, and I have yet to run across any camera made in either of those two countries.

I'd like to buy a Nikon DSLR for some medium-duty advanced-amature shooting since all of my old 35mm film camera gear is Nikon and I can continue to use the lenses, and a Nikon point-and-shoot for the glass and other features and designs.

Which older glass do you have? several years ago, before we started this forum, I bought my first DSLR with much same goal in mind: use my older glass, from my film SLR days, with my new DSLR. Truth is, the newer glass, even the kit glass, is so good, and often very inexpensive, that you may want to very quickly ditch the older glass and grab some of the newer glass.

Depending upon your personal needs, the D90 may be an excellent choice, but bear in mind that this body may soon be reaching the end of its model life. This means that there may be an upgrade/replacement model announced, perhaps within the next few weeks, as Photokina is almost with us, but it may also mean that you may be able buy one for a bargain price as it will then be a superceded model. Being replaced in the model range won't change its actual usability and feature set one bit!

Secondly, does anyone know of any great, unbiased websites that are reporting on this issue of brand reliability?? I can't find one anywhere.

I couldn't either; I doubt that this issue actually exists.

[aim54x]

Welcome OldShutterBug!

I am working in the camera retail industry, and have been for the last few years. It sickens me how so many people pretend to be in the know when they are really blowing hot air, this is the case wherever you go, I have worked at a number of different stores and seen it everywhere, regardless of the reputation of the store. Occasionally you will run into someone who is saying it as it is...but I can tell you that the salesperson you have encountered in this case definitely has very little idea as to what he/she is saying.

A few key points to keep in mind.
-Nikon DSLRs are made either in Japan (D3 series and D700) or Thailand (D300s, D90, D5000, D3000)
-Nikon Lenses are made either in Japan (Pro lenses), Thailand or China (there may be more places, but these are the main ones)
-Nikon's has been constructing cameras and lenses in Thailand since 1990
-Can the perceived high faulty rate is only because BestBuy sells more Nikon than Canon? I currently work in the Repairs section of a camera store, and can easily say the reverse, but is this accurate? My technicians will (contractors) agree that Nikons are seen less often, and applaude Nikon for publicly addressing issues (D70 and D5000) whereas Canon refuses to do the same (5D - mirror, 1D Mk III - AF, 1D/Ds Mk III - oily viewfinder, 1000D - stop working - all relatively common faults that Canon will service under warranty).

If you already have Nikon glass, then I would have no problems recommending a modern Nikon (the lenses will actually work even if they are Ai/AiS/Series E), however consider which camera you are looking at (D90?) as they do have limitations (CROP FACTOR, light meter limitations with MF lenses). Gary is correct, PhotoKina is just around the corner so we may see some new cameras there as well.

[Murray Foote]

I held off on a DSLR for a number of years when my serious camera was a 6x17 and my digital camera was a Panasonic FZ50. This was partly because at that time I could see that digital technology was a moving target and I didn't want to buy a camera that would be obselete in two years time.

So as it happens my first DSLR was a Nikon D3 which allowed me to use all my old lenses at their original focal lengths. However, one of my main activities is photographing live music and I came to realise that for that modern autofocus lenses could capture many shots that my old manual focus ones could not, or at least they delivered a much higher proportion of successes. So I still have a 24mm f2.8 AI, Vivitar Series 1 28mm f1.9 AI, 50mm f2, 180mm f2.8 AIS and 50-300mm f4.5 that I haven't used for some time. I still sometimes use my 85mm f1.8 AI'd though I may replace it before long and the only old lens I use without expectation of replacement is my 16mm f3.5 fisheye which is as sharp as a current lens and autofocus is hardly an issue.

It all depends what you want to take. If your main interest is landscape then the older lenses will probably be fine provided you get something like a D90, D300 or D3 which support the older lenses. I have heard some people complain of problems such as chromatic abberation with old AI lenses on digital cameras but I've never experienced that myself. Most of my old lenses have very good ratings in reviews so that might be a factor. Old lenses that weren't so good in their day may be unsatisfactory now. However, the camera body can potentially be an issue here. I understand that for any manufacturer, the cheaper the body, the more likely the precise requirement for sensor alignment may not be entirely fulfilled so what appears to be a lens issue may be a problem with the alignment of the body.

A first step might be to go into a camera store with an appropriate memory card and try out some of your old lenses on their camera. Just make sure you can find an attendant who will show you how to set up the exposure or do it for you. Then you can take the card home, examine the images closely and see how your old lenses perform. Maybe try out a modern lens as well to see the comparison.

[Murray Foote]

Secondly, does anyone know of any great, unbiased websites that are reporting on this issue of brand reliability?? I can't find one anywhere.

The only thing I can think of like this was a US rental site that reported it was discontinuing many of its Sigma lenses because certain models were very unreliable.

[OlderShutterBug]

So I've updated my profile -- sorry for the inadequate info.

Thanks for all of the terrific and insightful information and opinion. I also wondered just how much smoke this guy was blowing. He seemed to be very knowledgeable but as I told him, I'd never heard these issues and their relation to country of manufacture. However, I did see that some of their point-and-shoots were built in Vietnam, according to the stamp on the box.

I'll wait for announcements to come out of Photokina before I sink any serious money into gear; I'm not in a rush and can wait. However, I may go ahead and get the Nikon S8000 point-and-shoot.

I'll keep you all posted on what happens. If I hear anything I'll let you know, right here.

Take care,

[gstark]

Hi Shawn,

Thanks for taking care of the location/profile issue.

Sacramento: a lovely city. You have a great rail museum there, and there used to be a pizza place with an old Wurlitzer organ in it .... I used to live in Modesto, and was a frequent visitor to Sacramento. Or San Francisco. Or LA. Or Yosemite. Anything to escape Modesto.

On the PHD cameras, many people find - even die-hard Nikon shooters like myself - that the Nikons are not quite as good as the Canons, so it may be worth your while looking at a couple of the Canons as well. And again, with Photokina just around the corner, waiting may well be a good strategy. Perhaps if you really need something now, buy something from the very low end of the spectrum; but as there has really been very little released this year from either manufacturer, I think I would be waiting ....

[ozimax]

I used to live in Modesto

San Bernadino is STILL the armpit of America, IMHO.

And Shawn, you could solve all your problems by simply buying a Canon.

[gstark]

I used to live in Modesto

San Bernadino is STILL the armpit of America, IMHO.

No, that's still Fresno or Bakersfield.

And Shawn, you could solve all your problems by simply buying a Canon.

And that wuld lead to a whole raft of new issues. See Cameron's post, and then add the issue of the disposal of his legacy glass.

That said, my considered advice would still be to wait until the Photokina announcements are done.

[Murray Foote]

I have heard some people complain of problems such as chromatic abberation with old AI lenses on digital cameras but I've never experienced that myself.

Come to think of it, that may be because I got a D3 which automatically corrects for chromatic abberation. This also applies to the D90 and D300 but not to earlier models.

[OlderShutterBug]

Hey, thanks for all the great feedback. I'm in no hurry for a camera so I'll wait and see what Photokina and the new year bring.

Gstark, how did you go from Modesto to NSW?? BTW, I've had two Canon PHD's and they both died in less than two years, and I take good care of my gear. I wasn't happy with the focusing on both -- in fact when I got my powershot sd600 as a gift I never was very happy with the sharpness of the photos. The sd600 lens is now stuck in the "out" position -- could be dust or something but I doubt it. I keep it in the case and out of any adverse elements that could damage it -- but who knows? anything is possible.

If anyone finds a great photo site...

[gstark]

how did you go from Modesto to NSW??

Hi Shawn,

Actually, it was the other way around. I'm Sydney born and bred, and got head-hunted to go and work with Ernest and Julio in the early - mid '90s as a senior software developer. Then moved to Dallas; similar role, different organisation and industry, for a few years before running out of visa and therefore needing to return home.