Advice needed on SpeedLights [Nikon D90]

[The Last Day Dawns]

Hi,
I'm relatively new to DSLR photography and recently brought a Nikon D90 (with 18-105mm lens). When taking photos during night functions, I noticed that their was a lot of noise in the photos. It wasn't only during night function but in locations with little light. I assume this was because the internal flash just wasn't strong enough for the night functions (disco) and for for the distant to the target? I'm sure it wasn't the ISO setting.

Given that I have another, important, function coming up, I'm looking at purchasing a Speed Light for my camera. The problem is, I'm told that I'll need at least the SB-600, which is quite a hefty price (~$500) for me at the moment. I would be willing, yet apprehensive, to buy it, but was just looking at other options. While looking it a magazine, I saw Nissin brand speed lights that are a lot cheaper. Does anyone have experience with these Nissan speed lights? I am looking to expand my photography further, so which brand offers more useful features?

Also, I've had a look on eBay... I usually never buy online as I like to have the satisfaction of having "in hand" when buying, but the prices are great there (looking only from Australian sellers). ~$270 for a SB-600, which is nearly half price. I could even get a SB-900 online for the price of a 600 in store. Looking at the Nissin speed lights, the Di622 (which I believe is the equivalent of the 600) is $190. Too good to be true?

Anyway in short:
-How do Nissin speed lights compare to Nikon Speed Lights?
-What Speed Light would you recommend for a Nikon D90 used regularly leisurely, not professionally?
-Would you recommend purchasing online, at a cheaper cost, or buying in store?
Any other help or advice is much appreciated. Thanks.

[chrisk]

juts addressing the need for a flash as opposed to the other issues you are having which id suggest you post samples of.

How do Nissin speed lights compare to Nikon Speed Lights?

not very well. they suck.

-What Speed Light would you recommend for a Nikon D90 used regularly leisurely, not professionally?

sb600 should be sufficient.

Would you recommend purchasing online, at a cheaper cost, or buying in store?

without hesitation. most of the people you find in this forum will go to a local supplier first but if they cant come close in price, we all shop online. i buy online for at least 70% of my gear.

Any other help or advice is much appreciated. Thanks.

not sure where you are located, as per forum rules, pls include a meaningful location in your profile. d-d has the sb600 for $299 and has a storefront in sydney and brisbane. http://www.d-d-photographics.com.au/nik ... .htm#sb600

[el nino]

Get it from overseas. With the strong A$ and the massively high prices the SB flashes are here in Australia. Its worth it.
Don't bother with 3rd party brands, just get a nikon flash. sb600/700 new or a SB800 used.

I used to have a SB800 for a few years and now getting a new flash. I've decided on the 900 instead of the SB700 cos I want the extra power. For the D90, SB900 is a too large and unless using a 200mm lens it is overkill.
Instead of a SB600, I'ld look at the SB700 new or a used SB800.
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2010/09/ni ... it-by.html

Also if your intending on shooting with multiple flashes or off camera/remote usage, and don't want to splurge for pocketwizard, cables or chinese RF triggers - SB700/800/900.
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/09/po ... ch-is.html

If you are apprehensive about hong kong or ebay vendors, buy it from Adorama or B&H Photo based in the USA. You'll pay about U$60-70 for shipping, but even then the prices of the nikon flashes are cheaper than Aus. I'm about to buy a SB900. If I want a Aus tax invoice, I normally buy from Cameras.net.au, but their SB prices have always been high. I'm looking at either Adorama (plus some other accessories to bring down the shipping cost) or flash only from an ebay vendor.
D-D Photographics (Aus) & D-D Electronics (Singapore), its confusing, there was a thread about them recently and then a couple of spammy posts promoting them. I havent used Double Ds, but other members have bought off them. The post about their dodgy GST declaration for items over A$1000 & precharging the customer for tax aint cool
viewtopic.php?p=409236#p409236
http://www.cameras.net.au/index.php?cPa ... 6afaa117a7
http://www.d-d-electronics.com.sg/categ ... hts/Nikon/
http://www.d-d-photographics.com.au/nikonflashunits.htm

[Remorhaz]

Hi,
I'm relatively new to DSLR photography and recently brought a Nikon D90 (with 18-105mm lens). When taking photos during night functions, I noticed that their was a lot of noise in the photos. It wasn't only during night function but in locations with little light. I assume this was because the internal flash just wasn't strong enough for the night functions (disco) and for for the distant to the target? I'm sure it wasn't the ISO setting.

You may have AutoISO turned on (which I feel is a good thing) which will ramp up the ISO to compensate to get a "good" exposure in low light - take a look at the EXIF data for the shot to see what ISO was used - I take lots of shots at school functions (indoors with low light) and personally I feel it's better to get a shot at all with noise (some of which can be easily removed in post - e.g. in Lightroom) rather than no shot at all. I'm also finding lately I've been often using a fast lens instead of flash for about half my shots (e.g. 50 f/1.4)

As the poster above I bought my SB-600 in store at DDP for about half the normal price - it is of course grey market but I've not had any problems so far. I think the other advantage of going with the Nikon flash especially if you're new is you can pretty much use it on full auto (iTTL) even wirelessly (off camera).

[gstark]

Hi, and welcome.

As Chris has mentioned, please update your profile with a location. We can offer much better help knowing where you are. There's little point in an Adelaide member offering to help you with exposure issues or lending you a speedlight if you're in Qld, is there?

What you're dealing with here are two separate, but related, issues. First of all, I urge you to post a couple of the images that you've shot, so that we can see exactly what you're talking about.

As a general rule, high noise levels in an image are an indication of under exposure. And if you're shooting in discos or nightclubs or the like, then you need how to deal with these sorts of issues.

For starters, the D90 is a great camera, and I see you have the kit lens. That's good, but it's a slow lens, optically. That means that it doesn't let a lot of light through to the sensor, and in situations such as these, where you're struggling with the available dark before you even start, it's actually working against you.

So my first port of call for you would be suggest a nifty fifty: the Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 lens is dirt cheap, and will let in heaps more light than any of the kit lenses you can throw at the camera. We're talking several orders of magnitude here. And it's a sharp lens. The f/1.4 version is even sharper, and will let in even more light, but it does cost more; for what I suspect your usage will be, the f/1.8 lens will be a perfect, and economical, fit.

Next (but more importantly) is technique. You state that you're relatively new to DSLR photography, and that's great. But you will need to take a little time to learn your equipment. The shots that you're wanting to make require good technical expertise and advanced knowledge. They're not difficult, per se, but you just need a few shots under your belt. You will make mistakes. Post those images, listen to the suggestions offered in critique and try them; reshoot, repost, listen and persist. You'll be very pleasantly surprised at just how quickly you can mange these sorts of techniques.

On technique; I see that someone has suggested auto ISO. I would not suggest that at all. Rather, in the D90, use the highest numbered ISO value (not Hi-1 or Hi-2). Switch to Aperture priority, and switch the metering mode to Spot.

None of these are the defaults, so you will need to get your hands dirty within the camera settings, and again, this is a good thing; see my comments about technique. Here is where you need to take control, because the camera needs your assistance to cope with the difficult conditions you're shooting under.

Spot metering will be the key here: in the default mode, the camera is merely trying to average all of what the meter "sees", and the result is that it's trying to give you something that's grey. It did that quite well, really, but too bad it wasn't what you were wanting.

In spot mode, it looks (typically) at the centre of your viewfinder, and will try to correctly expose for that object. Coupled with a faster lens (like the nifty fifty) you will have a much better chance of getting the images that you're expecting.

Now, was somebody asking about a speedlight? Get the biggest and best you can afford. That will definitely be a Nikon branded item, and the SB900 if possible; work downwards in your budget from there. But remember that there will (again) be a learning curve with this equipment, and getting good images won't simply happen because you've got a flash. It's actually quite likely that they'll be worse.

Overexposed and flat. Again, see my comments about technique.

Now, you mentioned that you were using the built-in speedlight on the camera, and wondered as to its adequacy. It's very possible that its output was not adequate, and in posting some example images we'll be able to see and judge. It's also possible that it's operating at a reduced power setting, which would definitely cause this sort of effect to occur.

Again, see my comments regarding technique. With a little bit of knowledge, it's quite possible to use just the built in flash, some fast glass, and grab some truly great shots. You just need to understand what the limitations are, and work within them, and make them work for you.

The camera is just a tool in your hands; you need to learn to make it work with you.

[Mr Darcy]

Hi and welcome.

Not a lot to add here. Just a few points.
1. I second Gary's suggestion of the Nikon SB900. Only buy cheaper if your budget won't stretch that far. This is a flash unit you will grow into, not out of. I started with an SB600. Within six months, I added an SB800. Then another SB800 about a year after that. Then the SB900 came out. I sold the SB600 I started with to help fund one. I Haven't looked back. So I now have 1xSB900, 2xSB800 and occasionally lust for more.

2. With non Nikon brands, be aware that the flash itself can fry the camera. Depending on how it's designed, the contact pins can have several hundred volts on them. More than enough to fry modern electronics. This is more of an issue with older flash units. New ones SHOULD be OK, but if you do have a problem you will have voided the warranty by using non approved gear. Incidentally, the issue is an even bigger problem with Canon gear

3. I have used DD Aus, and would happily recommend them. The issue with DD-Sing is really no issue at all. The Aus Co is a subsidiary, and when you order from Singapore, the goods are actually shipped from Aus. Because of this, GST has already been paid on them, and the charge is forwarded to you as it should be. Because the local agent has already paid the GST, they charge you direct. If you buy from e.g. Adorama, they have no local presence so the importers charge you the GST. You still pay it, just a different way. YOu will also pay GST on the postage in this case. Of course, the latter way, it is always possible that the importing agent may not notice the value is over the threshold so you avoid it altogether, but that is a poor gamble. In your case, the value of a single flash is below the limit, so it is a moot point anyway.

[gstark]

D-D Photographics (Aus) & D-D Electronics (Singapore), its confusing, there was a thread about them recently and then a couple of spammy posts promoting them.

No, I think that may have been a different but slightly similarly named trader. To my knowledge, nobody from either of the D-D sites has posted here, and certainly not as spammers.

[The Last Day Dawns]

First off, thank you Rooz, el nino, Remorhaz, gstark and Mr Darcy for your help.

not sure where you are located, as per forum rules, pls include a meaningful location in your profile. d-d has the sb600 for $299 and has a storefront in sydney and brisbane. http://www.d-d-photographics.com.au/nik ... .htm#sb600

Apologies, I'm from Western Australia. I did read the forum rules but I don't see the rule about location. Is their a thread that I missed? Edit: Now I see it. I means it's just the large floating red box at the top of the forum....

I'm not sure if this is related, but I did send of my lens for repair because the diaphragm was faulty. Although, I think this was before these photographs were taken.

As for Speed Lights, I get I'll ditch the idea of the Nissins and probably get a SB-600. While I could afford a SB-900 online, I guess the price is still quite high at this time. Also what Mr Darcy said about frying the camera, scares me.

For starters, the D90 is a great camera, and I see you have the kit lens. That's good, but it's a slow lens, optically....suggest a nifty fifty: the Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 lens is dirt cheap, and will let in heaps more light than any of the kit lenses you can throw at the camera. .

Thanks for the suggestion, gstark. I had a look at the lense, and the price seems good. I'll have a look around for sure. I was also looking for a lens with a larger f stop.

Apart from that, thank you for the help once again. Although I may not have address eached of your points you brought up, I did read it all, and the supplied links. I will try to answer them soon, but thanks to a premature "submit", I thought I should quickly finish this post!