Lee Bigstopper vs B&W110 vs Hoya ND400 et al

[Mj]

So with all the slow shutter action of last weekend down at Blue's Point and thoughts of doing a little tour along the coast in the near future it's time to think a little about some ND filters.
From a quick bit of research it appears the choices are:

1. Lee Bigstopper + Lee holder + a Lee grad or two
2. B&W110 + Lee holder + a Lee grad or two (as the B&W are circular so less flexible in adjustment)
3. Hoya ND400 + as (2).

Unless I've missed some other reasonable option that appears to be about it.

The reviews I've read suggest that all three options are worthy with Lee being easier to compose and then slide the bigstopper in but might suffer more from light leakage. The B&W colour shifts to warm side and the Hoya to the cold.
For grads it seems the only options are the Cokin or the Lee systems with the latter being preferred by most.

Is there anything I'm missing here? I think those of us already into this have got option 2.

Advice welcome...

Michael.

[Remorhaz]

1. Lee Bigstopper + Lee holder + a Lee grad or two

Michael - this is what I wish I had (sometimes) - however the Lee BigStoppers are on massive backorder (and expensive) - order it now and get it in like 6+ months time

2. B&W110 + Lee holder + a Lee grad or two (as the B&W are circular so less flexible in adjustment)

This is what a number of us (Me, Gerry, Suren, Cameron) (although the later two have Cokin filters instead of Lee from memory) currently use. The plus with owning the screw in filter is you can just take it in your pocket with just the camera and tripod if thats all you want to use (e.g. I've done that here in the city often) - if you had the bigstopper only you'd have to carry around the whole filter system and the bigstopper plate - much more likely to get damaged, etc

Is there anything I'm missing here? I think those of us already into this have got option 2. Advice welcome..

One thing to mention with the colour cast is that sometimes there's a very different result using just the 10/9 stop ND by itself vs using it in conjunction with other filters (e.g. grad). e.g. the B+W or B+W+Lee appears to have pretty similar/neutral cast whereas if you ask Suren what happens when he mixes it with Cokin or Hitech... well...

The B+W is quite a thick filter so my UWA at max wide can vignette a little at the corners with it

Most of us bought our B+W's at MaxSavers

[Mj]

Thx R...

What makes you wish for the BS over the B&W?

My assumptions are that:
1. it would be more convenient to frame/focus/set the ND with a slide-in.
2. colour casts would at least be consistent using same branded filters.
3. I would most often, and certainly in the near future, use in tandem with a GND (but I might find I'm wrong).

But I can understand the argument that a screw in is more convenient.

Widest I'd be using it would be with a 10mm but most likely with my 16-35 f/4.

I think both the B&W and Hoya are available but yes I understand that Lee BS is hard to source.

[biggerry]

Hey MJ,

The Lee BS is probably the best solution, but with some big draw backs, size and light leakage and cost. It has one big advanatge of the abiliyt to easily compse when nothing is in the viewfinder. With regard to the light leakage, there is a simple baffle you can make up to sort that out - Jenno (Ray) has got this sorted and I would talk/PM him to get his opinion too, Suren did try it out a few weeks ago as well.

The BW has a brown/warm cast to it

The Lee BS has a blue/cool cast to it

As mentioned I purchased mine thru Mainline when the had the 30% discount which brought it within my pain threshold for local suppliers. They also provide a lifetime warranty on their filter, even if you break it.

My assumptions are that:
1. it would be more convenient to frame/focus/set the ND with a slide-in.
2. colour casts would at least be consistent using same branded filters.
3. I would most often, and certainly in the near future, use in tandem with a GND (but I might find I'm wrong).

pretty much.

[aim54x]

I agree, a streamlined LEE system would be the ideal, but I wouldnt give up my B+W ND110, so convenient.

I am currently running Cokin grads, but once they expire I will replace them, most likely with LEE.

I buy all my B+W from Mainline (St Leonards - http://mainlinephoto.com.au/), they are a joy to deal with and offer that famous unconditional warranty on their B+W filters. If you keep an eye on out their website (or even here) there usually is sale price or coupon code that will net you some real good pricing.

NOTE...it looks like he has extended his 1/2 price special on certain B+W lines

[Mj]

Thx guys... as always in the photo game there is no perfect one solution.
Given it appears the bigstopper is out of supply for some time i'm likely to opt for the 110... happy to buy local if mainline can deal but looks like their current deal doesn't include this ND.
I'll still need a GND so who is dealing in LEE kit worth talking too? Looks like mainline don't.

[biggerry]

Thx guys... as always in the photo game there is no perfect one solution.
Given it appears the bigstopper is out of supply for some time i'm likely to opt for the 110... happy to buy local if mainline can deal but looks like their current deal doesn't include this ND.
I'll still need a GND so who is dealing in LEE kit worth talking too? Looks like mainline don't.

For Lee stuff, you pay a premium for being stocked in Aus but it is within the pain threshold imo. Great service there too.
Mediavision Australia
4 Monash Road
Gladesville NSW 2111
(02) 9816 4055

[Remorhaz]

Mediavision Australia

+1 - got all my Lee stuff from here as well. If you do buy online buy from a UK seller (e.g. TeamWork, SpeedGraphic, StudioKitDirect, Morco) - much cheaper than from a US seller.

[Reschsmooth]

I buy all my B+W from Mainline (St Leonards - http://mainlinephoto.com.au/), they are a joy to deal with and offer that famous unconditional warranty on their B+W filters. If you keep an eye on out their website (or even here) there usually is sale price or coupon code that will net you some real good pricing.

Watch it, fella. That's Crows Nest, not St Leonards

Michael, they are literally around the corner from where you were at the coffee meet.

[surenj]

Personally, I find that blue/green cast of the Lee is less desirable than the warm/brown cast of the BW. I wonder whether the color cast is different for different brands of camera.

With my 60D, I can compose (most of the time) with liveview (exposure simulation mode) while the filter is on. (you just up the ISO until you can see then dial back down)

[Mj]

Reviews that i have read suggest that the colour casts do vary body to body. Personally i don't see this as a major issue as long the cast is consistent. On balance i'll go for the bw 110 and lee kit for gnd then maybe a bigstopper later if i really get excited and think it warranted.

So... next related question... best timer remote option... thinking Poons nikos unit looks good... not wireless but otherwise has the right features i think.... what are we using and what's best option now some experience has been had???

[biggerry]

Reviews that i have read suggest that the colour casts do vary body to body. Personally i don't see this as a major issue as long the cast is consistent. On balance i'll go for the bw 110 and lee kit for gnd then maybe a bigstopper later if i really get excited and think it warranted.

So... next related question... best timer remote option... thinking Poons nikos unit looks good... not wireless but otherwise has the right features i think.... what are we using and what's best option now some experience has been had???

15 dollar ripoff from ebay...

[surenj]

I cheat by using the Magic Lanern and a $3 IR remote from ebay.

Rodney has both wired and wireless options that you are asking about.

[Remorhaz]

Rodney has both wired and wireless options that you are asking about.

I have the $15-20 ripoff from eBay Gerry is talking about - the cabled Aputure remote for my D7000 (which I've had for some time and it works perfectly) – however recently I purchased a Wireless (2.4GHz RF not IR – so it isn't line of sight dependant and works from very far away – e.g. 50m+) version recently on ebay for $39 delivered – the Yongnuo MC-36R N3.

The remote part is essentially identical to the Aputure remote (same functions) but there is a radio component which plugs into the camera end (with a cold shoe mount so you can put it into the flash mount to hold it). The version I got also came with the extra lead which lets you use the remote as a directly cabled one as well.

It works the same as the wired one I have (delayed start/timer/intervalometer/etc) and works well however I wouldn't use it for star trails or for other important very long bulb mode exposures – not because it doesn't always trigger the shutter open as it is supposed to – it does. The problem appears to be that to do long bulb mode exposures it has to effectively send the signal constantly that the shutter button is held down and if there's any interference so that the signal is lost even briefly it releases the shutter and then starts a new frame – this would be disaster for star trails/timelapse for instance. It doesn't happen often but if I'm moving about I have seen it happen so it can't be trusted for that type of shooting. In all other respects it works perfectly and you can still use it as a wired version if you get the one which includes that cable.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ws/eBayISAPI ... OC:AU:3160

[biggerry]

just for kicks and giggles MJ, heres a recent shot with the BW bigstopper.

The great thing about these filters (the bit i like anyway) is that they can completely transform a scene from any sense of reality into what the naked eye never sees.

[radar]

A bit late on the scene here but another option for GND are the Singh-Ray filters, which are very similar to the Lee filters. I use the 4x6 filters with the Cokin Z-Pro holder. I also have the B&W 110. The colour cast is consistent so pretty easy to correct in post processing when you get it back on the computer.

The Singh-Ray filters aren't cheap but I have found them to be very good quality. On my UWA lens, the holder will vignette but you can modify it to be thinner, so that helps and is an advantage of the Cokin holder, not sure if the Lee holder does this or not.

As for remotes, I've had enough problems over the years with ebay cheap cable remotes. They worked for a while but kept breaking down when I needed them most. In the end, I just paid more for the Nikon remote and have been happy ever since. I also got a good price on an MC-36 a while back (from a member of the forum) and have been very happy with this, especially when doing time lapse sequences.

Cheers,

André

[biggerry]

good point André, i never really looked at teh Singhray stuff other than their reverse grad.

One day when we have a session I would love to try our singhrays to compare!

[surenj]

Thanks André,

Just looked at the Singh-Ray site. They state that their NDs are color neutral. More pricey than Lee though. I always had a price-quality (which seem to go together) heirarchy in my mind, which is from lowest to highest.

Ebay cokin knockoffs
Welding glass
Cokin
Hi-tech (affordable reverse grad)
Lee
Singhray

Re: Singhray; They have a vari-trio which is very interesting. I reckon it should be called vari-trio-definite-vigenitto-filter.

[radar]

Re: Singhray; They have a vari-trio which is very interesting. I reckon it should be called vari-trio-definite-vigenitto-filter.

I've got their Vari-ND, had it for a few years now, does vignette on my 17-35, probably from 17-20, after that, it's okay. Their trio version is newish and from all reports, very nice but very expensive. There is certainly more choice in terms of variable ND filters these days. I've heard of some people having good results with the Fader ND, not as expensive as Singh-Ray:
http://lightcraftworkshop.com/

If you were to invest in a Vari-ND style filter, I would recommend getting one size larger then you need. For example, most of my lenses are 77mm thread, then I would get the 82mm version and have a step-down ring, should all but eliminate vignetting. At the time I bought mine, I wasn't all that concerned with this but in hindsight, all is much easier and as mentioned, most of the time, it tends not to be an issue for me.

cheers
André

[surenj]

André,

Thanks for the info.

With regard to the vari-NDs, I've tried these but they only give about 8 stops. The lightcraft one will give X signs on wide angle lenses (which would be the main application) when closing in on 7 stops.


I think the ideal application for a seascape/landscapes is a variable grad (able to vary the strength and perhaps with the evolution of technology; the type ie reverse, hard and soft). I'd like to see this built-into the sensor. Perhaps the new e-ink technology will make it possible to make a sheet of glass with these properties; with wireless control of course.

For seascaping in particular, with my limited experience, I reckon you only really 'need' a few filters.

1. 3 stop hard reverse grad
2. polariser which can fit and not cause much vignetting with ONE grad in place
3. 3 stop soft grad
4. Bigstopper of some description (ideally which could slide in with ONE grad in place)

The rest can be taken care of in PS.

I know Brent Pearson recommends more but I think these days you can recover detail (what with Nikon and their low ISO shadow detail) without mucking around with filters while there is much fun to had checking out the miracle of the sun when it rises/set above/below the horizon.

[radar]

With regard to the vari-NDs, I've tried these but they only give about 8 stops. The lightcraft one will give X signs on wide angle lenses (which would be the main application) when closing in on 7 stops.

Yep, you get this with a few different vari-nd filters. Mainly to do with the angle/direction of the light that is coming in the lens. You have to get to know the tool and use it in the right conditions.

I think the ideal application for a seascape/landscapes is a variable grad (able to vary the strength and perhaps with the evolution of technology; the type ie reverse, hard and soft). I'd like to see this built-into the sensor. Perhaps the new e-ink technology will make it possible to make a sheet of glass with these properties; with wireless control of course.

that's called stacking of filters

For seascaping in particular, with my limited experience, I reckon you only really 'need' a few filters.

1. 3 stop hard reverse grad
2. polariser which can fit and not cause much vignetting with ONE grad in place
3. 3 stop soft grad
4. Bigstopper of some description (ideally which could slide in with ONE grad in place)

The rest can be taken care of in PS.

that's probably not a bad start for a kit. However, then you want to start shooting hills, mountains,.... so the number of ND grad filters increases. I've got two more ND Grads as well as the ones you list above and that has served me well.

cheers

André

[Mj]

Ok... in the interest of reuse I've resurrected this old thread as I am about to take possession of a long awaited Bigstopper.
On balance I decided that I would prefer to stick with a single brand solution and I liked the option to slide the stopper in and out during composition.

So the question now is... apart from the stopper, what other filters are ppl finding most useful?
I've in mind to get the starter kit that but that includes a 2-stop hard grad and a 2-stop ND with the holder (and I know I need the ring as well).
Might I be better forgetting about the extra ND and just getting a 3-stop hard grad... or are ppl finding a soft grad of more value???

I realise that this depends on the composition... at this stage I would most likely be targeting seascapes and the odd country scene that should help narrow things a little.
There are a few here already well practiced in some of the compositions I have in mind.

Thanks in advance.

[biggerry]

Ok... in the interest of reuse I've resurrected this old thread as I am about to take possession of a long awaited Bigstopper.
On balance I decided that I would prefer to stick with a single brand solution and I liked the option to slide the stopper in and out during composition.

nice.

So the question now is... apart from the stopper, what other filters are ppl finding most useful?
I've in mind to get the starter kit that but that includes a 2-stop hard grad and a 2-stop ND with the holder (and I know I need the ring as well).
Might I be better forgetting about the extra ND and just getting a 3-stop hard grad... or are ppl finding a soft grad of more value???

The ones i find useful are the ones I got, i wish I had more, but
I have hard grads 0.3 0.6 & 0.9 these I find useful, i would also reckon a soft 0.9 would be very handy
polariser is key in my opinion, I have always had polarisers (qty 2) there is not PP filter that can replicate it, hence its one that I think is essential for a bag.

personally i would not waste my time with a ND less than 3 stops, two stops is just not enough in most situations, 3 is getting there.

for teh grads, i very rarely use the 0.3, mostly use the 0.9 and sometimes the 0.6, the 0.6 is great for doing HDR's.

If you only want to get 2 filters, i would say the 3stop ND and the 3 stop Grad would be most useful

I find my lee hards are actually not that hard, but i do not have much to compare it to...

if you coming to the 'do' on Sat I am planning to do a sunrise so your more than welcome to try out my small selection of gear.

[Mj]

Sounds good... I've been summonsed to collect the Stopper this week so will probably just opt for a 0.9 Hard Grad to complement it at this stage.
The polariser, whilst important, might have to wait for another time... (i'll have to check the price) but it's certainly on my list.
I was mainly not sure regarding hard vs soft grads in the Lee range and I'm trying my best not to buy more kit that has a high chance of collecting dust !!!

The 'do' is at 10am... is the sunrise scheduled a bit late over there on Sat???

[biggerry]

The 'do' is at 10am... is the sunrise scheduled a bit late over there on Sat???

lol, of course, sunrise is still at about 6:50am

i will bring my stuff to garys anyway and I am sure others will probably have more anyway.

[Remorhaz]

I have the 0.9 (3 stop) Hard grad and 0.6 (2 stop) Hard grad and by far use the 0.9 most often. I don't think I'd need a Soft all that often (even the Hard is not particularly hard edged).

I've heard our brighter conditions here in Australia (compared to say the UK) mean we use the stronger ND Grads more (probably why we never use the 0.3).

I've also just taken possession of my new Heliopan 105mm slim CPL and 105mm Lee front ring (F*ing expensive and huge) which I ordered from TeamWork in the UK (finally came into stock). This allows you to put the CPL on the front and easily rotate, etc whilst also having two slots for filters, etc. NB: The Heliopan slim CPL is thinner than the others (e.g. B+W) and much thinner than the Lee (less vignetting with UWA's).

[Mj]

Thx Rodney... pretty much what inline with what I was thinking.
At this stage I think I'll just pick up the stopper and a 0.9 HGND and check out what you are all using in way of CPL et al.
I have an old cokin CPL that hasn't seen much use and I might see if it even fits somehow first (unlikely)... as either the Lee or the Heliopan look to require a financial transfusion first...

[Remorhaz]

I have an old cokin CPL that hasn't seen much use and I might see if it even fits somehow first (unlikely)... as either the Lee or the Heliopan look to require a financial transfusion first...

Up till now I was either not using a CPL at all or doing what Gerry does (which is put the (77mm) CPL on the front of the lens and then attach the Lee holder in front of the CPL) - however this causes two problems for me:
1) my B+W CPL which has front threads is quite thick and thus vignettes quite a lot near the widest focal length esp with the Lee stuff in front of that
2) each time you compose a different shot you may have to rotate the CPL either with the Lee stuff detached or with it on and then realign the Lee filters with-ought rotating the CPL

I've only used my new Heliopan CPL once briefly so will have to see how it pans out over time. I note it also vignettes a little at max wide - with two slots in the holder plus the front ring with CPL.

[Mj]

Well now I am in possession of some Lee filter kit and a much lighter wallet !!!
Based on discussions I had during the sale you really need to have the CPL set on the outside of any other filter stack.
Amongst other issues a threaded CPL would lead to potential significant softness due to the order of the filtering.
It makes sense to me that you would look to polarise the shot before hitting the light with any other filtering... but that's an entirely unscientific view on my part.
I'll be keen to see how the Heliopan CPL compares to the Lee and given the price I'll take some time to make a decision on that piece... as it is I'll need to be getting some good use from the Stopper just to justify it all so far.