Epson Pro3880/3885 and CISS questions

[PiroStitch]

Hi all,

Has anyone had any experience with the latest Epson large format printers? I know a few years ago there were ongoing threads about the r1800 and r2000s, so I'm hoping some have upgraded

I'm looking at getting the Pro3880 for work and fine art prints. I'll be looking at predominantly using rag media. So far reviews online have been rather positive and main gotcha is the lack of roll paper capability. Are there any others I should be aware of?

Also, what about the longevity of a continuous ink system? I understand Epson inks are rated at least 60-80 years depending on the environment the prints are kept, but what about using a continuous ink system? My gut tells me that the third party systems don't care too much about the archival longevity of the ink but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks in advance.

[aim54x]

MrDarcy has a big Epson....a 4900 if my memory serves me correctly, hopefully he will be able to pass on some wisdom

[Mr Darcy]

Yes I have the 4900.
Print quality is absolutely amazing. 200ml cartridges (11 of them!) so for home use I wouldn't even think about a CISS system. Hell, even a small business should be happy with that volume.

In general the word I have heard about 3rd party inks is "DON'T!" Neither quality off the press nor longevity is there.

I use Canson papers almost exclusively and permanence ratings are at least 50 years under glass, and for some papers exceed 100 years. Have a look at this site for details. Certainly none of my prints have shown any sign of degradation despite somewhat haphazard storage conditions.

If you think you might ever need roll papers (e.g. Panoramas) get the 4900 over the 3880. Yes you can get a RIP to go past the 1m native limit, but the combined package will end up costing you more than the 4900, and you get 200ml over 80ml (from memory) for the 3880. Also I was talking to a bloke last night who went down the 3880 + RIP path and regretted it as the paper has to be ABSOLUTELY flat to feed properly. He lets it sit on the floor for a week before printing. I just load a roll and hit print.

The only downside I have hit with the 4900 is ink clogging the heads. I have just come off 4 months of no use, and have major clogging problems. Now solved, but in future I will be printing at least once a week whether I want a print or not. While researching fixes I came across a uTube of a bloke who had a permanent fix. It involved a 7900 and a sledgehammer. Painful to watch. The fix I went with involved Windex and time. If you have ever watched My Big Fat Greek Wedding, you won't be surprised that Windex worked.

[PiroStitch]

Thanks for the detailed insight, Greg. Greatly appreciate your time.

I don't do that many pano photos and for the time being, I don't think I will. From what I've read, there are enough profiles out there for different types of paper that a RIP isn't really required anymore. Back in the day when access to ICCs weren't as readily available or released, the RIP had an importance. So far I've only been using Hahnemuhle media, particularly German Etching, and they have ICCs for the Epson printers.

The smaller ink tanks are a slight downside, but clients will be paying for that and the media

I considered the HP Designjet series as well, but I don't think I can fit it in the apartment not to mention the thought of shipping the damn thing if and when we move again...

[Mr Darcy]

Yes the profiles are good these days. I use the ones from the paper manufacturers.
In this case though, the RIP is used to overcome the inherent limitation on the printer. Without a RIP it is limited to printing a maximum 1 metre long sheet. I forget the exact dimensions, but it is around that. A RIP can somehow get around that. Not sure how. But head strike becomes a real issue if there is any curl in the paper at all. And this is specifically excluded from the warranty on the 3880.

For me that was the deal breaker for the 3880. I used to print up to 2 metres on my old 1280, and wanted to be able to continue doing so. The need is less now as I had to reprint my panos on the 1280 every few years as they faded something horrible. That is not an issue with the 4900. I still do one or two panos a year though - new prints not reprints. I have a wall dedicated to showing off the latest pano.

I had actually paid for a 3880 before I realised the issues around pano printing, even though I had asked the specific question of the sales reps. Then I ran into an Epson tech who explained the full details to me. Luckily it was before delivery and I was able to transfer the price on to a 4900.

[chrisk]

that sledgehammer video is brilliant. lol

[Murray Foote]

I have a a 3880 and it works well. I generate my own profiles using i1 Profiler though for most papers that probably isn't really necessary.

The 3880 is an A2 printer but will take paper up to 37.5" or nearly a metre long, which is longer than A1 and longer than you can comfortably fit on a standard (40") matte board. If doing that you might want to set up a primitive, even cardboard paper feeder out the bacl of the printer to keep the feed straight.

The 3880 is much better value than a 3000 when you take the ink you get with the printer into account.

I second what Greg says about CIS systems. They may be bad for your printer, they reqwuire huge volumes to justofy and you'll probably have to get custom profiles.

[PiroStitch]

Thanks Murray for the reassurance!

Now to find some paper suppliers in HK. For a city that has an insane amount of photography shops, it's surprisingly inconvenient to find actual photography supplies. I managed to find one but I might have to look at importing from Europe or America at this rate.

[Murray Foote]

Buying paper from B&H or Adorama can be cheaper than buying in Oz provided you get enough to cover the freight and delivery can be surprisingly quick.

[Geoff M]

I have the older 3800. Have been very pleased with the output and I generally use Ilford papers. I always use the genuine Epson ink cartridges, and yes the capacity of those is 80ml. I am not a prolific producer of prints and it can be a few months between prints. Even with that time frame I have never had blocked heads and some ink cartridges have exceeded their 'use by date', but I just run them until they empty (can be changed mid print, and you will not see any defect in the print).

[PiroStitch]

Thanks Murray and Geoff!

[PiroStitch]

Just a follow up to this thread. I pulled the trigger and bought a Pro 3880 (Pro 3885 as it's known in Asia).

So far I've only been able to get it working with the Epson Radiant Watercolour paper. I bought a pack of Hahnemuhle Museum Etching as well but after 10 goes of trying to feed the paper in, I gave up. It feeds in but the printer won't pick it up. Time to do more research as I'm sure I've missed something.

Loving the prints from this printer and the black and whites are surprisingly stunning. It's laying the ink down across the tonal range and especially not losing a heap of shadow detail.

[Murray Foote]

If the paper is thin you can use the top feed and it works automatically. If it is thicker, you have to use the rear feed. In that case you have to apply a little gentle pressure and hold the paper in until it catches. I've never used the bottom feed.

[Murray Foote]

From memory, I think somewhere around 300gsm is the boundary and it applies more to matte papers than glossy.

[Mr Darcy]

I use the Museum Etch occasionally in my 4900. It is a VERY heavy matte paper at 350gsm, so from what Murray says, rear feed will be a must. I also found it works better if I play with the platen gap. Available in the advanced settings on the 4900. Not sure you can do that on the 3880.

On the 4900, I can use the top feed, but I have to nudge the paper in so it will take.

[Murray Foote]

Yes, there is a platen gap setting in the 3880. I use paper thickness instead, usually increasing to 13mm. I had a problem at one point, can't remember whether it was banding or pizza wheels.

[PiroStitch]

Thanks for the advice.

Murray - did you create a custom paper profile on the printer for the Museum Etching? I can't change the thickness of the paper otherwise.

I have more luck herding cats than understanding anything useful from the Epson Userguide.

[Murray Foote]

Sorry, I meant to say where that is: [printer...]/ [properties]/ Paper config. At least that's how it works on Windows. I understand Macs are quite different.

That would be relevant to a custom profile only if I had made settings there while generating the profile.