My latest dumb question (or Dumb Question Mark II / III?)

[Nikkofan]

Hi all

Just got the SB800 and am a bit overwhelmed about using it with the D70 -used it this weekend on what I thought were right settings and, disappointingly, some of the shots are underexposed. Fortunately, the composition and sharpness are fine and correctable in PS, but I'm flummuxed and getting a bit of a head spin (think Linda Blair in Exorcist!) trying to work it all out. Just when I was getting really good results with the Inbuilt D70 flash, then I feel like a beginner again (very depressing!

I know that studying it up and practicing over time will remedy this but, with our two small Beautiful Miracles running around, I don't have a lot of reading time unfortunately. So, for now, I was wondering if anyone else using the SB800 has any handy tips or experiences they can share to point me in the right direction and that might make it seem slightly less formidable in the meantime.

Also, does anyone know of any sites / books that you can recommend re the D70 / SB 800 combination?

Told you it would be a stupid question!! (sorry)

[kipper]

The SB800 is somewhat like a woman, you're never sure what buttons to push to get what you want. I've been playing with it for the past 4 months (not much of a play) since I've had it. I still feel like a beginner and am not sure how to get the results I want. Yesterday I was taking photos of products that I was going to sell on eBay and just experimented and ended up taking 20 photos of the same shot with the light being shot at the item from different angles or from a fixed spot but bounced using things like a white painted door or the ceiling as a reflector. Some of the shots came out ok and what I wanted. Some others crap. I had a light greyish color desk as the place where I had the products sitting, and the item being shot was a lens. Most times I found that when the product was illuminated fine and looked correctly exposed the background was way over exposed.

[Greg B]

Nikkofan, firstly, you are in good company, many people have reported battling a steep learning curve with the SB800, me included.

However, I am a bit surprised that you had exposure problems. I have mostly used mine in the iTTL mode and the results have been fantastic. You mention thinking that you had the right settings..... what were they? Was the camera set to A, S or P? Do you have any exposure compensation dialled in on the camera? Were you using TTL on the SB800?

As far as books are concerned, Thom Hogan's D70 book has some useful info on the d70 generally (it is like an expanded clearer manual) and a good section on flash.

cheers

[Greg B]

Thanks kipper, I am sure Nikkofan will find your SB800/woman comparison illuminating, considering that she has the former and is the latter

[kipper]

[Nikkofan]

Hi again to both of you - thanks for the replies.

Kipper, as Greg said, your description was informative (an insight into the male mind? God knows, it's a mystery to many of us gals . ) But, sorry, I'm not really au fait or interested in knowing much about what female buttons to press!!

However, I did take your point, and take heart that you, after 4 months, still have difficulties sometimes. Makes me feel a tiny bit better so I won't kick myself so hard!

Greg - I had the camera on Ap Priority, no exposure compensation, using TTL and TTL/BL. I was shooting mostly around the medium fstops - f8, f11, f16 - but as I said, with some disappointing results.

I have actually ordered Thom Hogan's Flash Guide book from Amazon, 2nd hand copy as it's out of print these days, but haven't received it yet. And I do have Thom Hogan's D70 Manual, but haven't reached the Flash section yet. Think I'll hop straight over to it now!!

Thanks for your encouragement, guys. I feel a little better now - I was just about ready to give up this morning, I was so disgusted with myself! And thanks also for any further enlightenment you can pass on, dear Gurus!

Nikkofan

[kipper]

Can you point me in the right direction towards that Thom Hogans book on the SB800 as I'd be interested in it too.

Today I've been furthering my experimentation with flash photography. Again trying different techniques until I'm happy with the result I get. I find it has to be a happy medium between ambient and fill light.

For instance in my product shots for eBay, I've been using the ambient light to produce what the eye sees. Then I'm using the flash to give effect to the product. Usually I'm bouncing the light off the wall to give a backlight to produce nice soft shadows at the front or to produce nice coloring in the lens glass.

eg.

<img src="http://darryl.smugmug.com/photos/17792249-O.jpg">

[Nikkofan]

Kipper

Firstly, I can't guarantee that Thom Hogan's Flash Guide book actually covers the SB800. If the SB800 is included, great, but if not,
but from the speel about the book on TH's website, I figure it will probably help me anyway.

Here's part of the speel:

The Nikon Flash Guide provides complete operating instructions for every Speedlight Nikon has made, from the SB-1 to the SB-29, including the SB-E and SB-140. Full specifications for every Speedlight [except the SB-30, SB-50DX, and SB-80DX, which appeared after the book was written] are presented, including flash range tables, flash durations, coverage, and more. Add a complete listing of flash accessories and flash-specific information for all the Nikon camera bodies, and you'll find that virtually every question you've ever had about flash is answered.

Although this particular book is now out of print, a 2nd edition is being prepared, but not out yet, hence my order to Amazon which I should say is not even guaranteed delivery because I'm on a Wait List (number 12 in queue - bugger!) I've also ordered his Nikon Field Guide book, which is the one that should arrive this week.

You can read more about this book and others he's written on:

http://www.bythom.com

Thank again

Nikko

[birddog114]

Nikkofan,
You won't find much interesting in Thom's Nikon Field guide! Nikon Flash Guide is the one you should look for, unfortunately Thom'is writting an update for this book and has no infromation when it's released. BTW, Peter iNova ebook is the one I recommend, it's also a good book then Thom in many field. Thom's book is mainly technicals and it's dried in comparison with Peter iNova.

[Onyx]

In terms of ebooks, I'll second Inova as the source for more flash related readings. But to be honest, if you find the the product manual hard going, you probably won't even go near the ebooks! The fact is, the SB800 can be complicated device, with many options and many sub-settings within those options. eg. there is no simple way of explaining quantum mechanics. Difficult concepts require lots of text to clearly explain.


However, I'll try to simplify:
When you first buy the flash, its default is set to TTL-BL. This mode is NOT suitable for flash photography. Switch to TTL (no BL) for use at night/in the dark or in low light situations, when the flash is used to light up stuff.

Which metering mode are you using? Ken Rockwell in his D70 review explains more clearly (despite his reputation and your opinion of him, his D70 review is hugely informative - a must read for every D70 owner IMHO) . The short of it is, the matrix meter is deliberately programmed to underexpose when light levels are low. Switch out of matrix metering if you don't desire that result.

[Onyx]

Smaller camera apertures are asking alot from the flash. Shoot wide open to f/8, and not only will you get more ambient light adding to the mood of the scene; your flash doesn't have to work as hard, so you're saving battery power as well.

If you notice the red light on the bottom right of the SB800 blinks after taking a flash shot, it means it's run out of power and your image will have been underexposed. (ie. you're doing something wrong)

Do not under estimate distance to subject. The first photographic 'rule' of "get close" is especially applicable in flash photography. You lose alot of power with distance - double your distance, and you'll need four times the power for an equal light job. Get close, and then take another two steps closer.

(PS. Gary, I'm getting p^&* off with these word limits on posts)

[Onyx]

Take off the diffusion dome. I noticed last night, taking shots with and without the diffuser, the camera's determined flash exposure changed dramatically. I find bouncing off walls/ceiling does a much better job at softening the light than the diffusion dome.

[Greg B]

The Guide Number with the diffusion dome is half of the guide number at 28mm.

The zoom head is automatically set to 14mm when the diffusion dome is attached.

Nikon recommends tilting the flash head up 60 deg when using the diffusion dome.

[kipper]

Interesting. Will have to give that one a go!

Basically all my efforts are trial and error.

[Nikkofan]

Ok, thanks guys. Already I have something to work on. I can see that I had a few non-recommended settings on this shoot, ie: I was using matrix metering, and I did have the diffusion dome on.

Sorry to hear that you don't think the Field Guide will be of any use, Birddog, because I have already ordered it. Never mind, I am intending to get another Nikon film camera sometime, so I hope it might come in handy then. Besides, it was a 2nd hand copy, so was pretty cheap anyway.

Thanks again everybody

[Greg B]

Nikkofan, apparently the diffusion dome really cuts the effective output - the blinking red light mentioned by Onyx is your alert that the SB800 has not been able to get enough light on the subject so you can adjust for the next shot.

That was interesting about the matrix mode too Onyx - I didn't know that.

And you are planning to buy a film camera Nikkofan! Very retro. Leigh (nnnnsic) will be impressed.

[Nikkofan]

Actually, Greg, it will be my 2nd Nikon film camera. I've had an FG since 1981 and worked it to death. The poor little beast has been dragged along with me on all my various (pre-kids) escapes: canyoning, caving, white water rafting, abseiling, on various scuba-diving trips (no, it didn't actually submerge itself! But it sat it in the boat waiting) around Europe, Africa, Asia, Pacific beaches & the Outback. Its poor old body has been bashed and dinged, but it kept going and gave all I asked of it. I loved my old FG! Unfortunately, after quite a few services towards the end of its life, it finally gave up the ghost and has taken a well-deserved retirement.

So, eventually, I will get another Nikon film body. Haven't looked into it yet, but it WILL HAPPEN. I miss film!! I love digital (now) but I still miss film!

So .... would you be the right person to ask about a Nikon film body, Greg?

[Greg B]

No Nikkofan, I wouldn't be the right person. I have had a number of film cameras, the Olympus OM1 and OM10, a Kyocera that I inherited, an Olympus XA and a sensational Canon Epoca, possibly the best snapshot camera I have ever used or seen.

Film schmilm. I'm over it. I don't want a typewriter either, or a 386 computer. Or a pan toilet.

There are people here who will be right on board with your quest.

[joolz]

 LOL
Love the analogy Greg!!

Joolz

[Nikkofan]

Film schmilm. I'm over it. I don't want a typewriter either, or a 386 computer. Or a pan toilet.

I bet you say "Bah Humbug" at Christmas too, Greg!!

I'm not hankering for the "old days" of typewriters and 386 computers either - and, sorry, I'm not old enough to remember pan toilets (not suggesting that you are either!) but film? ... well, I guess it's either a "love it or hate it" deal and, as I want to come back as Ansel in my Next Life, I still love it! Hence the mourning over the loss of my beloved FG. I'm tempted to see if it can be resurrected once again but I think I'll just leave it to RIP.

I am thinking of the F100 as its successor when I eventually get to it. Any thoughts from anyone who has a F100? Or can anyone recommend any other Nikon filmer? (Greg, you're excused at this point )

[Greg B]

I bet you say "Bah Humbug" at Christmas too, Greg!!

Well spotted, that is exactly what I say

Any thoughts from anyone who has a F100? Or can anyone recommend any other Nikon filmer? (Greg, you're excused at this point )

Yes, I understand. You might want to post something in the relatively new Film and Non-Digital Imaging section.

[Andyt]

Nikkorfan,

You are not alone, the D70 is my third digital camera, in the days (before) 386 computers when film ruled I could not afford a top of the range camera nor the developing costs involved with a learning curve. In recent years with the retiring of so many quality film camera's I have " collected" or saved a few from the Trading Post and garage sales.

My latest mercy mission yesterday resulted in rescuing a F501, 35-70 AF Nikkor, SB22 flash & bits for $100. (bought a CF card lately?) As my understanding and knowledge of photography grows I have double the pleasure in learning two techniques .....some of us would rather remember these superb camera's and 386's than bedpans

[Nikkofan]

Amen Andy

WELL SAID!!