Colour management in Windows

[Alex]

Browsing through NC and Nikon View preferences I noticed you can set monitor profile in Windows in Monitor settings. Is it benefitial to set any particular profile, like Nikon sRGB monitor even though you didn't profile your monitor with spider?

Thanks

Alex

[MattC]

Gidday Alex,

The short answer to your question is generally no. Leave it for Windows manage, but by all means use whatever visual tools to get your monitor looking right. In the case of using the Nikon monitor colour profiles, these are generic profiles that are likely to be no better or worse than the standard monitor setup. You could try some of these in conjunction with Adobe Gamma to try to get your monitor right. They might give you a head start.

Of course, a spyder is the ultimate. Visual calibration is very subjective and not particularly accurate. It is possible to do a reasonable job of the mid tones, but stand no chance getting the highlights and darker tones right.

Time to take the dogs for a run.

Cheers

Matt PS I did have a long answer but thought that I should spare you

[W00DY]

I guess I can ask this question in this thread...

I have callibrated my monitor with the Spyder 2 and I have applied the ICC profile in windows (Properties, settings, Advanced, Color Managment).

Is this the only place I need to apply the profile?

Will Photoshop, Nikon Capture and View use this profile or do I need to apply it to each program seperatly?

Thanks

W00DY

[MattC]

Woody,

Monitor profile is only applied in monitor colour management, never in PS or NC although the profile should be visible in PS colour management.

sRGB, AdobeRGB, ProLAB.... are all working colour spaces. Your monitor profile is an output colour space. What happens is that each device sees or displays colour differently so these profiles are used to translate colours from one device to the next, in accordance with a standard. Basically profiles define colour for each device. Monitor profiles are output spaces and are not intended to replace working colour space and vice versa. eg a monitor profile should not be defined as the work space in PS colour management and vice versa. Even the D70 has a profile, we do not see it because the camera converts it to working sRGB or aRGB during in-camera processing.


Cheers

Matt

A piece of the long answer

[W00DY]

Monitor profile is only applied in monitor colour management, never in PS or NC although the profile should be visible in PS colour management.

Sorry Matt but I am still a little confused

Ok, so in Photoshop there is a colour settings section. What your saying is that I don't need to change the working space options if I have applied the ICC profile to my monitor. However by callibrating my monitor this will display the working spaces applied in Photoshop differently to a non calibrated monitor (pressuming the non callibrated monitor is way off).

I hope that makes sense.

W00DY

[Alex]

Thanks for the explanation, Matt. I used AdobeGamma and didn't find it very useful. I'll dive into the colour management more seriously when I get a spider.

I see, so the bit I choose in PS colour management dialogue like choosing sRGBIblahblah92... is actually a working colour space rather than an ICC profile and although it takes ICC into account the PS does not show which ICC it is currently using?

What about the NC. I saw in colour management tab it uses files with .icm extention. Is this ICC that you can actually choose in NC or is this a colour space, e.g. like aRGB will be AdobeRGB.icm?

Thanks again
Alex

[MattC]

Woody,

In PS colour management tab, you set your working colour space (profile). This is normally sRGB, Adobe1998, or ProLAB. There are a few others. The monitor profile is applied to your graphics card and is used to translate image data from your working profile to your monitor. So the answer is yes to the first bit.

For the second part, you will not see the profile used with a non profiled monitor in PS. If your monitor is profiled you will see the profile in the list in PS colour management. PS displays all profiles in the profiles folder.

Cheers

Matt

[W00DY]

Woody,

In PS colour management tab, you set your working colour space (profile). This is normally sRGB, Adobe1998, or ProLAB. There are a few others. The monitor profile is applied to your graphics card and is used to translate image data from your working profile to your monitor. So the answer is yes to the first bit.

For the second part, you will not see the profile used with a non profiled monitor in PS. If your monitor is profiled you will see the profile in the list in PS colour management. PS displays all profiles in the profiles folder.

Cheers

Matt

Thanks Matt.

I appreciate your explanation.

[MattC]

Alex,

I have been interchanging "profile" and "colour space". The profile defines the colour space when talking about working colour space (eg sRGB, Adobe1998, Lab, ProPhoto...). With the monitor, the profile (the one in display properties) that you use defines how the system displays colour information on the display. In both cases the "profile" is to ICC standards (or is that IEC, the standards group I mean). You know exactly what working colour space you are using because it has been defined in PS colour management.

sRGB is shorthand for sRGB IEC1966-2.1

I do not know why Nikon uses the icm extension instead of icc and I cannot remember the differences beween them. There is a third extension.

Cheers

Matt

[Alex]

Thanks for the explanation, Matt. It certainly not a trivial area to understand. What I am still not clear on is why NC uses icm files which are basically ICC profiles for the monitor rather than colour spaces.

Alex

[MattC]

Alex,

You are right, this not a trivial subject. It was only a few short months ago that I was going through the same as you. I have a reasonable understanding of what I can and cannot do, but my knowlege is by no means comprehensive. These days I have little interest in the "nuts and bolts" of my computers. If I have a problem then I will get in there with google at hand. I have them to do stuff, not to dissect - not that I would have much of a chance with a Windows system being the hairy monstrosity that it is. I have dealved into the black art of manually editing icc printer profiles, which was fun... for a while.

I do not question why NC uses icm these days. I just assume that the Nikon engineers have at least some idea of what they are doing. My rule of thumb: Use icm when required and icc where required.

For me, colour management is now a set and forget affair. I work in aRGB. I profile/calibrate my LCD monitors occasionally, and set that as default in display properties. I print from PS using "print with preview" where all I have to do is ensure that the correct profile for my choice of paper is selected and the printer driver is correctly configured (I use presets). My scanner has been profiled/calibrated. No more colour shifts with conversions to different profiles and prints are exactly the same as my monitor. The key was the spyder and printer profiles. That simple.

Cheers

Matt

[Alex]

Thanks for your help, Matt. Sometimes I feel I worry too much about the nuts and bolts of post processing and should concentrate more on taking photos

Again, thanks for the clarifications.

Cheers
Alex