Archiving Images?

[shutterbug]

My image collection is building up very fast.

What is the best method of storage? Currently I am burning DVD's and external HDD. I want something that I can get access to the image fast.
Also not to expensive.

[sheepie]

Hi Shutterbug - I am trying to get into using IMatch, which is very powerful (a little overwhelming actually). Pricewise, pretty good (I think it was about $70), feature wise very good.
And yes, it allows offline storage with online thumbnails (the size of which is configerable).

When I get my act together I'm going to put a review up

[stubbsy]

The slightly more expensive Extensis Portfolio is also worth a look

[gstark]

A very big HDD.

Or two.

250G isn't that expensive these days, and as long as you're expecting to stuff the drive into a lappy, failry easy to upgrade into.

[birddog114]

400Gb is more better and same weight of the 250Gb

[Nnnnsic]

I'm looking at buying a Maxtor DiamondMax 10 250 - 300gb at the moment.

Get 4 250gb drives. You'd be set for a while.

At least a week if you own the D2x and at least a month if you own the D70.

[gstark]

400Gb is more better and same weight of the 250Gb

Until you start to load some significant data onto it. I'd really hate to try to pick up a drive with 400Gb of actual data stored on it.

[birddog114]

I'm looking at buying a Maxtor DiamondMax 10 250 - 300gb at the moment.

Get 4 250gb drives. You'd be set for a while.

At least a week if you own the D2x and at least a month if you own the D70.

Maxtor 400Gb x 4 = 2 Terabytes/ too small for what you're doing
It's so cheap now! same weight as the 120Gb disk

[Nnnnsic]

4 400gb drives would make 1.6 terabytes, Birdy. We'd need a different motherboard to support 5 drives.

[birddog114]

4 400gb drives would make 1.6 terabytes, Birdy. We'd need a different motherboard to support 5 drives.

Sorry, my typo, I say : 5 x 400Gb.

Adaptec RAID controller.

or:
04 x PATA on board
02 x SATA onboard

or:
04 x SATA (RAID On board)
01 x PATA

[MCWB]

RAID controller.

Bingo. I've been using two generic Silicon Image chipset-based RAID controllers for ages now, one 2XATA133 and one 2XSATA150, cheap as chips too (I think they cost me ~A$20 each in HK).

[birddog114]

RAID controller.

Bingo. I've been using two generic Silicon Image chipset-based RAID controllers for ages now, one 2XATA133 and one 2XSATA150, cheap as chips too (I think they cost me ~A$20 each in HK).

Its price ain't bad overhere!

[agriffiths]

Sorry to be a wet blanket but relying on hard drives to store your info is a bad idea. They are prone to mechanical failure and highly suseptable to mains supply voltage fluctuations (power surges).

I know because I see it everyday! People are distraught when their hard drive fails with data recovery costs commonly in the vicinity of $1,500 to $6,000. When asked why they didn't back up they just say it was on their to do list.

Shutterbug I think your DVD backup method is the best way to go at this stage. DVD capacity has increased from 4.7Gb to 9.4Gb and I believe that a 1 terabyte format has just been developed. A DVD is designed to last over 100 years... I think you'd be struggling to find a hard drive that would last 10.

It's fine to store your photos on hard drive(s).... so long as you don't mind losing them.

[birddog114]

Shutterbug I think your DVD backup method is the best way to go at this stage. DVD capacity has increased from 4.7Gb to 9.4Gb and I believe that a 1 terabyte format has just been developed. A DVD is designed to last over 100 years... I think you'd be struggling to find a hard drive that would last 10.

DVD media are not the same, and top DVD media as TDK Armor plates are not cheap, about $8.00/ea. Other DVD media will be gone with wind very soon, not 100 years as stated.
Anything on this world can be failed, can be happenned and bring to you dramas, duplicated back-up by hdd, DVD, tapes are the safest way, lost one you still have other to recover.
Hdd is a cheap method, it can be degraded and failed as said but with the huge storage in hand, second or third level back-up is required always.
The only way to avoid drama is educated yourself to do frequent back-up.

[shutterbug]

woohoo......seems like backing up at different levels and media is the best way...

[xorl]

shutterbug, if you want access the the data quickly and easily you can't go past large drives. They are rediculously cheap nowadays compared to other solutions. Plus the data is always online which saves hassle.

If you are looking for a good backup solution, thats a bit more complex..

In the past I've found optical media can be unreliable. If/when they state degrading you have no warning that your data just went AWOL.

I store all important data on a large hard drive. A separate copy is on a backup drive - preferably at a remote network site. I also archive the data on "good quality" discs (previously CD, now DVD) as well, just in case.

Advantages:
- Immediate access to all data
- Automated integrity checks and drive monitoring. I know fairly quickly if there is data loss on one of the drives so I can fix it.
- Automated backups so I can't forget them.
- Remote backups protect against against theft / fire / etc..
- Immediate backups. I hesitate to burn a DVD every time I take a couple of photos, it would be wasteful and time consuming. With a backup hard drive I can easily push the new data into the backups before formatting my CF card.

If you rely on optical media I'd recommend making sure there are at least 2 copies of everything and that you verify the the discs immediately after creation and every year or so after that. The verification step is a bit of effort, it might just be easier to recreate the backups periodically . Store the discs vertically in a dark/cool/dry location. One of these backup sets could be kept offsite if you don't have a remote hard drive.

[Oneputt]

Like others I use an external hard drive (256gb) to store second copies of my images the original of which is stored on the hard drive of my PC. Every time I store a new image I copy it across to the external drive. For them both to fail at the same time would be unthinkable.

[leek]

Like others I use an external hard drive (256gb) to store second copies of my images the original of which is stored on the hard drive of my PC. Every time I store a new image I copy it across to the external drive. For them both to fail at the same time would be unthinkable.

Do you have any offsite backup though? I've been trying to think of a way of doing this... One external hard drive in the house / one in the office??? Anyone else got a novel solution to this problem???

[birddog114]

Like others I use an external hard drive (256gb) to store second copies of my images the original of which is stored on the hard drive of my PC. Every time I store a new image I copy it across to the external drive. For them both to fail at the same time would be unthinkable.

Do you have any offsite backup though? I've been trying to think of a way of doing this... One external hard drive in the house / one in the office??? Anyone else got a novel solution to this problem???

Go to the bank and hire a deposit box

[xorl]

Do you have any offsite backup though? I've been trying to think of a way of doing this... One external hard drive in the house / one in the office??? Anyone else got a novel solution to this problem???

Swapping 2 external drives between remote and local once a week is a solution. However, now that lots of ppl have ADSL you can just transfer the data that way. With the appropriate tools you only need to copy the changes each night - which will usually be fairly small.

[Matt. K]

Backing up is only half the game. You also have to organise your imagery so that when you've got 10,000 images you will be able to locate an image quickly and reliably. I prefer Cumulus for this task.

[birddog114]

However, now that lots of ppl have ADSL you can just transfer the data that way. With the appropriate tools you only need to copy the changes each night - which will usually be fairly small.

What site? a remote site! where's the remote site? in your office? at your friend places? It's not simple this way, unless you're the owner of the remote site, and how long does it take to synchronize or backing up and comparing 100Mb file over the ADSL?

[Glen]

Leek,
John I mounted a usb external drive under my house as "offsite" backup. Unlikely a thief or fire would get under the house to steal a drive and a 5m usb cable keeps it far enough away from anything else. As you are in Lane Cove I assume there is a chance your house has a crawl space under it.

[birddog114]

Glen, next one get a wifi hdd & AP, no more usb cable, they can't trace it without the cable, and hook it up to a hidden wifi camera, you'll have him smile in the camera by putting a sign: SAY CHEESE!

[bago100]

Alas - it seems there is no perfect solution to the archiving problem

It seems that one has to work out how long one wants their images to last for. DVD might be the way to go if one wants the longest time frame.

[BBJ]

Well, there is lots of solutions and each maybe as good as each other but i would not relly on a hard drive to store all my images. I do of course keep them on 1 of my computers and also after each race meeting i back up to dvd or cd just incase marked what is on the cd as i have 1,000s around here stacked in boxes mainly my music collection that i have been collecting for many years as in Albums full of MP3 albums. Sometimes i have have the odd double up but what the hell media is cheap so i dont mind. So never relly on 1 copy or a hard drive and 250gigs of pictures is a lot to loose.
Cheers
John
BBJ

[Glen]

Birddy, did like the wifi drive, then I would just need a D2X to go with it

[BBJ]

I said to she who must be obeyed here that i wouldnt mind the new D2X she said if i do she is leaving, of course i said i'll help you pack. LOL

[Glen]

I said to she who must be obeyed here that i wouldnt mind the new D2X she said if i do she is leaving, of course i said i'll help you pack. LOL

[xorl]

What site? a remote site! where's the remote site? in your office? at your friend places?

True, it's not an option that everyone can use. But it is more accessible now with the availability of broadband. Friends & family all make good targets, especially if you help them with computer/Internet issues .

how long does it take to synchronize or backing up and comparing 100Mb file over the ADSL?

Only the differences within the file(s) need to be transferred. On an average 512/128Mb connection, 100Mb of changes would take about 15 minutes - not that anyone would need to hang around to watch it .

Otherwise I would end up manually moving the data around with a few external hard drives & DVDs.

[MCWB]

So thoughtful of you John! LOL!

[Onyx]

May I relate a recent personal incident as a timely reminder for all to BACKUP YOUR DATA!

My sister recently spent a weekened in Northern California. She took along her laptop on the trip (as yuppies would do). The laptop had her stored images stretching back possibly 18 months or so (since she got her digicam). Her rental car got broken into, and she lost all luggage, laptop - images, data and all. She told me the last time she fully backed up was when I was there in NY, which was 7-8 months ago.

So remember - data corruption is NOT the only way to lose your images!

[birddog114]

Only the differences within the file(s) need to be transferred. On an average 512/128Mb connection, 100Mb of changes would take about 15 minutes - not that anyone would need to hang around to watch it .

In theorical: yes, in real : NO.

At a work place today I don't believe any IT manager let worker access their network to do some funs like this.
At other places like friends's places: unless you supply them a free computer with the spec you want and storage spaces, but how do you compare files after transferred and make sure all are perfectly.
Both are uncontrollable.

Otherwise I would end up manually moving the data around with a few external hard drives & DVDs.

Yes, this option is what we have been discussed since this thread starts.

[agriffiths]

DVD media are not the same, and top DVD media as TDK Armor plates are not cheap, about $8.00/ea. Other DVD media will be gone with wind very soon, not 100 years as stated.
Anything on this world can be failed, can be happenned and bring to you dramas, duplicated back-up by hdd, DVD, tapes are the safest way, lost one you still have other to recover.
Hdd is a cheap method, it can be degraded and failed as said but with the huge storage in hand, second or third level back-up is required always.
The only way to avoid drama is educated yourself to do frequent back-up.

Sorry Birdy, by 100 years I meant that the DVD would not degrade or be unrecoverable (provided that it is stored properly) for 100 years. Obviously due to rapid advances in technology there will always be something better around the corner that will superseed DVD media. That's just the way it goes.

I guess my point was that there is a risk (as with any medium) that you run when storing data on Hard drives. I get about 5-10 jobs a day that relate to hard drive failure in Melbourne alone so it probably more common than most people think.

So always have a backup! (my preference being not attached to the computer in any way and stored offsite on DVD or mulitple copies on external hard drives)

[jonnydee]

I looked into doing offsite backup via my cable connection, but the only real option I could find (that didn't cost an arm and a leg in bandwidth costs and storage costs) was to use my smugmug account. It offers unlimited storage, and at least if anything goes wrong I have my best images. I don't upload the RAW files, but keep two copies on seperate HDDs at home, and another copy on an external HDD at work, (I use my laptop to transport new files to work and copy them off onto the HDD).

I was also thinking of archiving off the HDDs at home to DVD and giving the DVDs to my brother - extra redundancy

(Yes, I am paranoid about losing images )

[darb]

i guess im fortunate to have a good boss

my linux box / website acts as webs server, samba server, ftp and email server for my domain. It backs up over ethernet each night to one of our central backup servers and onto AIT tape, then each nights tape is stored in safe. (2 week rotation.) (the rack space, and backup etc is all free, a perk i spose.)

Short of the building burning down and fireproof safe not surving, im safe.

even then, i have a spare AIT tape which i periodically go and manually run our nightly backup onto, and then keep that at home ... just incase bin laden's mates decide to blow this building apart or some such thing.

Without those things, id probably just keep a copy of everything on my home PC, and a copy on my webhost ... or periodically dump the lot onto laptop and dump a copy on a PC at mums place or something like that.
So long as there's a working copy in two places, im happy.

The backup to tape thing each night is damn handy though, particularly when i break my website or something

[MHD]

that reminds me... its about time to go burn more CD's

[Mark T]

then each nights tape is stored in safe. (2 week rotation.)

Short of the building burning down and fireproof safe not surving, im safe.

I thought that fire-proof safes were designed only to keep paper from burning (i.e. keep the temperature below Fahrenheit 451). But unfortunately, even at lower temperatures, your precious backup tapes may still melt!

Let's hope that this is no longer the case.

[pippin88]

Only the differences within the file(s) need to be transferred. On an average 512/128Mb connection, 100Mb of changes would take about 15 minutes - not that anyone would need to hang around to watch it .

Still, that would take a fair while for a gig, which is pretty easy to do in a shoot.

I'm sort of tossing up on my next storage device, maybe a PSD, maybe just a big hard drive?

I currently burn to DVD, and usually two copies, one stored at my Mum's, one at my Dad's - and my computer is normally in Newcastle - so the chances of failure / loss are slim. However, there might be 3 or 4 shoots between burnings and at least a week between moving the DVDs to Mum's and longer for Dad's, so far from perfect.

[JordanP]

Digital prevails again over film. I don't know of anyone who used to copy their negs and store them in two different places for safety.

Cheerrs,

[Matt. K]

Onyx

I didn't know it was your sisters! I'll send it back!

Seriously...you are giving out good advice...theft is just as likely as a hard drive crash. The good news is you might get a new updated laptop from the insurance company but nobody can replace your precious photographs. And there is no way to insure for that kind of loss.