Does the D70s have WB encryption?

[Spooky]

I have looked on the net everywhere for this and can't find out.

Does anyone know for sure yet?

[big pix]

try dpview.........

bp

[johndec]

this was discussed in an earlier thread here and it appears that the answer is yes

[Nnnnsic]

From what I understand, the answer is yes... as will the D50 and the D2x's.

[KerryPierce]

Does anyone know for sure yet?

My 2 cents. Nobody, that is talking, seems to know. I'd be willing to make a ( very ) small wager that it does not. But, the way Nikon is acting now, I'd not be willing to wager much more than a cup of coffee....

[Greg B]

Why don't we ask Nikon?

[sirhc55]

Maybe Birddog knows as he has a D70s

[MHD]

I have tried decoding D70S raw files using DCraw... I have had less luck than with the d2x...
I am not using the latest version so I need to updgrade, but it apears there are fundemental differences between the d70 and d70s raw files... when I try to do the conversion I get strange images that look like they are missing a channel...

more work to do ...

[MCWB]

Yup same here MHD. RawShooter Essentials won't read D70s NEFs either... Mind you this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with WB encryption, just that the format is different!

[MHD]

UPDATE (YAY)
DCraw 7.02 reads d70s files

However it can not grab the WB info

[Greg B]

I just sent this email to Maxwells....

Hi Glenn

I am a moderator on a large and very active Australian Nikon DSLR forum.

There has been a great deal of talk and speculation on our forum, and many others, concerning the encryption of WB information, and the consequences in terms of third party post processing applications.

Without concerning ourselves in any way as to the merits or otherwise of the encryption, in the interests of establishing some facts, I would be grateful if you could answer the following questions. All deal with simple facts to which any consumer or prospective consumer would be entitled.

1. Will the WB data (or any other data) on the NEF files from the D70S be encrypted?
2. Will the WB data (or any other data) on the NEF files from the D50 be encrypted?
3. Will the forthcoming firmware update for the D70 cause the encryption of any data which is not currently encrypted.

Your early rersponse will be appreciated

Yours faithfully

Greg Bourke

[fozzie]

Greg B,

It will be interesting to see if you get a reply, this side of Xmas.

[gstark]

Greg B,

It will be interesting to see if you get a reply, this side of Xmas.

You forgot to nominate a year.

[Glen]

Thanks Greg, that seems a sensible way to clarify things

[Spooky]

Yeah, thanks Greg. I am looking at buying another body and want to know I can deal with the encryption issue before I end up with a D70s that will impact significantly on my workflow.

[birddog114]

I say: YES.
But do not have any confirmation on the new u/g firmware of the D70.

[Greg B]

Hmm, that's strange, I haven't received a reply.

I will do a follow up email in the morning.

[SoCal Steve]

Greg - I just tried opening the two D70s NEF files that MHD posted on Potsofgrass. Neither one would open at all in Photoshop CS except as 53KB Tiff images that (as you would expect) looked horrible.

Perhaps you could try it too and verify that this is indeed the case and not just operator error.

[birddog114]

I said: YES earlier

[leek]

Hmm, that's strange, I haven't received a reply.

I will do a follow up email in the morning.

Nice one Greg... send them daily reminders...

[leek]

Greg - I just tried opening the two D70s NEF files that MHD posted on Potsofgrass. Neither one would open at all in Photoshop CS except as 53KB Tiff images that (as you would expect) looked horrible.

Perhaps you could try it too and verify that this is indeed the case and not just operator error.

You probably need the new update to ACR that handles the D70s... while it doesn't give you the "as-shot" WB settings, it tries to approximate it...

[SoCal Steve]

Sorry, Birddog. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.

It sounded like it was still undecided and Greg is still writing email letters to ask questions about it. I think you made your peace with this encryption issue some time ago, but for some of us it remains a burning issue. I hope that you can be patient with us as we find our way to making peace with it too. You have more equipment choices than the rest of us do and that makes it a little easier for you. Cheers.

You always get my vote for the most sincere, devoted, and generous member of this forum any and every day of the year!!! Here's to you, Birddog114!

Respectfully, Steve

[birddog114]

Sorry, Birddog. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.

It sounded like it was still undecided and Greg is still writing email letters to ask questions about it. I think you made your peace with this encryption issue some time ago, but for some of us it remains a burning issue. I hope that you can be patient with us as we find our way to making peace with it too. You have more equipment choices than the rest of us do and that makes it a little easier for you. Cheers.

You always get my vote for the most sincere, devoted, and generous member of this forum any and every day of the year!!! Here's to you, Birddog114!

Respectfully, Steve

I've tried the D70s in both PSCS and PSCS2, and you don't think my words are correct, OK, leave it to you and learn.

Maxwell may not answer to GregB cos they don't have the D70s yet as of today. Maybe they knew what's happened but they can't tell cos they didn't have any authorisation from Nikon Japan.

Myself and few members have the D70s NEFs and I know what I'm getting, I still don't see the encrypted NEFs are problems for me cos I always open in NC first and used PSCS after, I'm not supporting the way Nikon did but I live with them and be happy cos those encrypted NEFs files do not make my life harder. Like the budgets from Our treasurer last night, some part I didn't like but what can I do and I didn't vote for them either.
Want to try a NEFs from D50, it's coming soon, it's same story.

[birddog114]

Where're all other members at last mini meet, I knew some of you have the D70s NEF files, why don't you tried on PSCS or PSCS2 to see what are they?

[SoCal Steve]

I've tried the D70s in both PSCS and PSCS2, and you don't think my words are correct, OK, leave it to you and learn.

Sorry again, Birdy - I didn't make myself clear. What I was refering to was the issue of whether encrytion is acceptable or should be protested.
I trust and value your experience with the cameras and other equipment. I bought a Lightsphere II last night just because I read that YOU said it was good. That was all I needed to hear. I do value your knowledge. Sorry for the misunderstanding on that.

Cheers, Big Guy!

[birddog114]

Steve,
How do you like the LSII? have you tried it out yet?

[SoCal Steve]

Ordered it last night. It comes from Marina Del Rey so I should have it by tomorrow. I'll file a report soon.

Steve

[birddog114]

Ordered it last night. It comes from Marina Del Rey so I should have it by tomorrow. I'll file a report soon.

Steve

Thanks Steve,
Awaiting to see your plays and words

[Greg B]

There is another dimension to my enquiry too.

And that is whether the sole Australian distributor for Nikon should answer a simple and legitimate enquiry from a consumer. I think the answer to that is a resounding yes.

The question of whether a future firmware update for the d70 will introduce WB encryption is even more valid.

The issue is not whether there are potential workarounds, or whether these questions can be answered by experimentation or guesswork. The issue is the reponsibility of any manufacturer to provide honest consumer information to it's customers. I doubt that there can be any valid argument against that.

[Glen]

Greg, your point above is the most telling, will they treat their consumer with respect and give straightforward information on their product? I would like to think they will, especially when you made it clear this was not an individual enquiry, but made on behalf of a number of their clients, both present and potential.

[Greg B]

I have sent today's follow up email to Maxwells.

Hi Glenn

I refer to my email below.

Please advise whether you are able to reposond, or whether I should direct my enquiry elsewhere, e.g., Nikon Japan. If this is the case, kindly provide me with a contact email address.

I would appreciate your reply today

Many thanks

Greg Bourke

[gstark]

Should I hold my breath while we're waiting for the reponse?

[Greg B]

I wouldn't recommend that Gary.

However, I am an annoying persistent person with issues like this.

To give one example (which will be more meaningful to Melb members in the eastern suburbs) I had a parking fine refunded by the evil Boroondara council - that process took six letters, five months and ended up with my local MP and the Boroondara CEO. All for $65!! But geez it was fun.

Stand by. But keep breathing.

[Glen]

I wouldn't recommend that Gary.

However, I am an annoying persistent person with issues like this.

To give one example (which will be more meaningful to Melb members in the eastern suburbs) I had a parking fine refunded by the evil Boroondara council - that process took six letters, five months and ended up with my local MP and the Boroondara CEO. All for $65!! But geez it was fun.

Stand by. But keep breathing.

Greg,

I am genuinely impressed. I get worn out by letter three, so I admire your perseverance

[gstark]

I wouldn't recommend that Gary.

However, I am an annoying persistent person with issues like this.

Glad I'm not the only one.

To give one example (which will be more meaningful to Melb members in the eastern suburbs) I had a parking fine refunded by the evil Boroondara council - that process took six letters, five months and ended up with my local MP and the Boroondara CEO. All for $65!! But geez it was fun.

I had an issue with the HIC in Canberra whereby they were refusing me permission to access some meds; my quack was quite incensed over this. This happened within days of our last feral erection, so I called the orifice of my newly installed local member, one Malcolm Turnbull.

He returned my call within minutes, and promptly sent me his email address so that I could respond with details of the issue, which I did.

And then ....

silence.

I followed this up four times, but still ....

silence.

About two weeks ago, I got one of his "I'm a pretty boy" emails, but I noted that it was sent from a different email address. This was late on a Friday afternoon, btw.

I responded, pointing out to him that, rather than sending me this crap, wouldn't he agree that he should be responding to my email of October last, and investigating the issues I had raised?

I asked him whether he thought he should be ashamed of himself for ignoring me for that length of time, adding that I certainly was ashamed of his (lack of) response.

Within minutes I had an email back from him, stating that he had no knowledge of my originating email (for which I had a reciept acknowledegment) and then a couple of minutes later, my phone rang, with the boy wonder on the other end. He had now found the email, and wanted to discuss and understand the issue before he took on the matters raised.

I thought that was a rather nice way to finish off a week - tearing shreads off one's local MP.

[Nnnnsic]

I said this to Dad last night and at the meet last week:

The WB encryption that Nikon has pushed onto us is surely anti-competitive in that it forces you to adopt Nikon's software as your processing tool, right?

So why doesn't someone complain to the point of telling Maxwell or Nikon that this is illegal in our country and they are required by law, if they want to continue selling down here, to re-write the firmware for Australians so the WB encryption is removed OR open their WB encryption up for other pieces of software to use...

[birddog114]

Nikon will write you a NC 4.3xxx SE to support our Aussie guys and it's free from Maxwell.

[Nnnnsic]

Birdy,
It couldn't just simply be a matter of new software because the firmware stops you from attacking WB on all other types of software.

If this does go against our laws and is anti-competitive, by law they would have to fix it (or get out... though I would really not want the latter).

Are they doing this to all their big PHD cameras that shoot in raw too?

[leek]

I did a little digging around on the ACCC site yesterday and it certainly sounds as if Nikon are operating against the principles of the Trade Practices Act... When I have a little more time and energy, I might lodge an enquiry with them to see if there is anything they can do to help...

I just wonder if they will understand the technical background of the problem and the anti-competitive implications. I'll give it a try though...

[Nnnnsic]

Was Australia ever one of the countries that went against Microsoft for their anti-competitive issues within Windows and IE?

If we were, that's surely a similar sort of ground.

[birddog114]

That means Nikon will be out of Australia if they don't want to fix
And grey import is a big winner! Bravo!!!!
Cos, if I want to use Nikon Systems then I have to buy from o/s or go to the Sunday market and pick up the bargains, good ideas though.

[Nnnnsic]

Well, there were similar lawsuits in the US and Europe against Microsoft so I'm confused why no one else has attempted to fight this yet...

Surely, Nikon would not be stupid enough to lose a place like Australia as a market, nor America.

[birddog114]

Birdy,
It couldn't just simply be a matter of new software because the firmware stops you from attacking WB on all other types of software.

Leigh,
It seems to me this issues is now not narrowing around the D70Users.com and it's known worldwide, but we didn't hear any objections or somethings against it from our local authorities? why? of course they have their ears.

I wondered, the laws in Australia is similar to the US and other countries in the same subject, but no voice has been heard from them.

Will our voice will make Nikon change their way?

Will our voice will make the Liberal scrap the ideas of sending troop to invade Iraq?

[Nnnnsic]

Probably not the Iraq issue, Birdy, but hopefully the Nikon issue.

But don't worry, we'll get right onto the Iraq issue with D70UsersAgainstSendingTroopsToIraq.com

[Aussie Dave]

I'm not 100% sure that Nikon are breaking any ACCC laws, and if they are I'm sure their legal team would find ways around it.

However, if members of this site did look further into taking action, it might be wise for members to be careful on what they say within these threads. If members berate and conspire against Nikon (or any company for that matter), it "could" be construde as collusion or defamation....which wouldn't help matters at all.

I am far from standing up for Nikon, and I don't agree with what they are doing either.....but we should all be very careful on what we say. After all, this is a public forum and anyone can read what we type. I'm sure the last thing we want to happen is the forum admins/moderators to get into trouble....

JMO

[birddog114]

Dave,
That means also we can't have our says

[Nnnnsic]

Actually, from what I recall, it's a private forum... or at least that's what I keep telling people.

It's available for public viewing, however so are all forums.

[birddog114]

I don't quite understand what Dave mentioned
Everyone can have their says about everythings without fearing of accussation as traitor, against the party, companies, person but not act violence, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Nnnnsic]

Some companies aren't too big fans of this whole "free speech" thing that the internet seems to have brought in its wake, Birdy, especially when what people say can be seen as ways of damaging a company.

For instance, if I say that Michael Eisner, the head of Disney, blows chunks and is leading that entire company into the ground, he can get pissed off about it and if he thinks it's costing him money, can sue me for it.

Even if it's true.

[birddog114]

But this Nikon issue is well known issue on other forums and last for weeks now. The voices on our forum are still soft, other burn.