Prizes for Challenge No:5/ The BIG 1 for AA

[JordanP]

Birddog, your generosity and heart for this forum is amazing. I have come to expect the incredible from you.... and with these prizes you have once again exceeded these expectation by far.

Cheers,

[birddog114]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all of your comments!

I wish I can do more to support our fellow members to have more fun with your participation into this special event of the year.

I forsee we will have the longer road ahead to relax and enjoying our hobby after a day or a week with hard work in your professionals.

Your contribution make this forum becomes a most friendly place on this earth to share your knowledges and accepting the peacefully friendships.

I hope and wish this special event will bring us closer with our uniqe and camaraderies which we always dream.

[Nnnnsic]

OMG the surprises never stop!!

There were surprise pressies at last year's Christmas dinner and there'll prob be some this year!

Last year, everyone got a watch (among other things)...

That said, I must have been terribly unlucky as my watch has since turned into an Anti-Kinetic watch...

[NetMagi]

Soulboy,
Yes, the challenge is for all members on this board to participate but the prizes are only awarded to the winners, who are residing in Australia with
valid addresses in Australia.
Due to the warranty issues and shipping to overseas, as previously challenges, the prizes are not offered to overseas members.

I'm sorry to bring this up again, but I had asked in a previous thread and your answer differed from this a bit.

I'm not a resident of Australia, but if I was to win, could I choose the Australian that receives the prize? For ex., I have a close friend that lives in Australia, could she receive the prize? She's a photog as well.

Your previous answer led me to believe this scenario would be ok, but your current answer would make it seem that that would not be ok.

Can you please clarify.

Thanks, and again, sorry for dragging this along further.

-Rich

[Nnnnsic]

Huh... I don't think we've ever thought about it from that point of view.

[birddog114]

Hi Rich,

As my previously posts, I would like to confirm:

The prizes or prize of any challenge are/ is only offered to members who's residing in Australia with the valid address in Australia.

For this special event, I would like to encourage the challengers to attend the event for receiving their winning prizes.

[stubbsy]

Last year, everyone got a watch (among other things)...

That said, I must have been terribly unlucky as my watch has since turned into an Anti-Kinetic watch...

Hmmm...

An anti kinetic watch.

Guess that would make it a stop watch

[NetMagi]

Hi Rich,

As my previously posts, I would like to confirm:

The prizes or prize of any challenge are/ is only offered to members who's residing in Australia with the valid address in Australia.

For this special event, I would like to encourage the challengers to attend the event for receiving their winning prizes.

Since your previous reasoning was warranty issues, which is not at play in my scenario, why discrimate against non-Australian entrants?

It's certainly 100% your right to do so, as it would be to place any 'rule' on prize receipt as you donated the prizes, I'm just curious 'why'?

-Rich

[wile_E]

An anti kinetic watch.

Guess that would make it a stop watch

*GROAN* Peter...

You forgot the *boom tish* at the end of it...

[Nnnnsic]

I always thought it was *ba doom splish*

[Glen]

Rich, I do not speak for Birddog, but I will hazard a guess here for you.

To be a member here we all pay nothing. To go to mini meets we all pay nothing. To enter any comp we all pay nothing! Not even a magazine purchase. As we must both imagine, someone in the universe somewhere is paying for these great prizes. The person with that great generosity is Birddog. He sells goods to members very cheap, just above cost. He also sells goods outside this forum at a higher cost. I have bought probably $8k of goods through Birddog (including a VR Coolpix 8800 which arrived at 7.30am this morning) and aside from Notebooks, I doubt Birddog would have made enough to pay for the fifth prize! Birddog deserves some return on his substantial investment, which I must point out is not financially motivated as I am implying above but more altruistically based with the good of the community paramount, which will not come from overseas members. I doubt Birddy breaks even on D70 users as a group when these prizes are taken into account.

You mention your friend is a photog. Maybe she should become a member and enter? Maybe she already is? Maybe she has already purchased something from Birddy and supports the community that way? Or maybe she should get something for nothing because .... sorry, cant think of one good reason.

Sorry to sound harsh Rich, but I think that is a fair assesment of it. I am sure Birddy will correct me if I got it wrong.

ps just to be fair, as overseas entrants can't collect the prize, we won't charge them an entry fee

[NetMagi]

I'm truly sorry if this offends anyone. . .

If you're going to let people enter, the prize should be awarded regardless of location. I personally feel it's a slap in the face to say, "you can enter the contest, but you can't have the prize".

I would have no issue with this if it was simply stated entry is only open to Australian citizens. This would be understandable considering a large portion of this 'online' community focuses around local meetings, etc, but to say we accept your entry, but we don't accept 'you' receiving the prize seems rather harsh to me.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I'm simply speaking mine. Please don't view this as a personal attack or flame. I won't bring it up again, but I needed to say how I felt about it.

I look forward to continuing my participation in this site. I've been a part of many online communities before (outside of photography), and this is by far the friendliest and best-organized I've ever taken part in. I consider you all friends, and I hope my opinion on this one single matter doesn't change that.



-Rich

[birddog114]

Hi Rich,

As my previously posts, I would like to confirm:

The prizes or prize of any challenge are/ is only offered to members who's residing in Australia with the valid address in Australia.

For this special event, I would like to encourage the challengers to attend the event for receiving their winning prizes.

Since your previous reasoning was warranty issues, which is not at play in my scenario, why discrimate against non-Australian entrants?

It's certainly 100% your right to do so, as it would be to place any 'rule' on prize receipt as you donated the prizes, I'm just curious 'why'?

-Rich

Hi Rich,

As you known, lot of competitons and challenges around the world are only applied or limited to their local residents. Do they discriminate other alliens?

Will I eligible to receive Nikon USA rebate on lenses, which was purchased from US stores and living in Australia? NO.

Yes, only if I have to send in my registration with US address, does Nikon USA discriminate the Non- US residence? NO

I'm not discriminate any non-Australian entrants to enter the challenge, you have the right to submit your photos but the prize(s) will only go to local members as from the challenge No:1, and we keep it as simple as it.

Yes, warranty & shipping & other unforseen problems are issues, if something goes wrong down the track, do you want to fix it? Of course, you will and how? I'm not very comfy if I hear or know something broken which was given, supplied by me and can't be fixed.

If I don't find the way to fix it for you? will I get a bad name? YES!
One or other way you still want your goods/ winning prizes working perfectly.

I heard and knew someone on this forum from other countries posted:
"I don't care about the warranty" that what people said today but not tomorrow if there's something goes wrong.

All the prizes here are from my personal funding and am supporting the August Anniversary as my will same as my contribution to this forum, do I have the rights to protect my liability in the near future of what I am giving out today?

As the rule set and agreed by the admins + moderators + MHD + myself, The winners of any challenge have to be an active member and Australian residence to receive the prize(s).

[Matt. K]

NetMagi
I agree with your sentiments entirely! Competition is open to Australian members only is fine and understandable. Overseas members should not be encouraged to enter an image with the risk it may be chosen as a winner to which there will be no prize. You were quite right to state your opinion and nobody on this forum would disagree with that.

[Glen]

Not offended Rich but surprised! I cannot get Nikon USA rebates when USA residents already have the cheapest lenses in the world, far cheaper than available here. I have a copy of Nikon Pro magazine here offering test drives of D2X or a prize of a 10.5 DX fisheye. I cannot enter because I am not a UK resident. It has been stated in the rules many times that prizes only go to aussie residents, but in the interest of being inclusive all members are invited to enter, for the personal satisfaction of winning, not for material prizes. I am sorry you feel the inclusive style is a slap in the face.

You must have missed my comment about not charging the entry fee to overseas residents

Everyone is entitled to an opinion Rich

[NetMagi]

I still think it would be 'safer' to just disallow entries from non-residents if they're not elligible for the prizes. To clarify on what I was trying to say before, here's another perspective entirely:

German citizen wins 3rd place, but first australian citizen down the winnings list from them receives the prize in their stead. How is that Australian going to feel knowing their citizenship won them the prize and not their photo?

-Rich

[MCWB]

I see what you're saying Rich, however (forgive me if this offends you) I think you're missing the point of the challenges. One of the best things they do is force you to go out with your camera and think about what you're going to shoot and how you're going to shoot it. You can learn a lot about photography by trying to get the 'right' shot of what you want, just how you want it. IMHO this knowledge is worth more than any prize, and is available to all challenge entrants.

[NetMagi]

I see what you're saying Rich, however (forgive me if this offends you) I think you're missing the point of the challenges. One of the best things they do is force you to go out with your camera and think about what you're going to shoot and how you're going to shoot it. You can learn a lot about photography by trying to get the 'right' shot of what you want, just how you want it. IMHO this knowledge is worth more than any prize, and is available to all challenge entrants.

I agree completely, and it gives me an idea.

What if entries were seperated into two groups. Eligible for prizes, and inelligible for prizes.

Images that were elligible for prizes would be judged against other images elligible for prizes, and submissions inelligible for prizes would be judged against other images inelligible for prizes. Inelligible images would still be critiqued and receive a numerical avg., but would not be judged against, or have the opportunity to 'unseat' an elligible entry.

-Rich

[Glen]

I see your point Rich. As we can see the various reasons why the prizes aren't leaving the big island, what do you think is the best solution? Ban overseas members so they do not have they joy of participating or allow them with no material prize but the satisfaction of a job well done? I personally like the inclusive style, but can see your arguements for banning the overseas members.



In that case you stated the person had an image good enough to be judged fourth. Being judged fourth amongst my peers would make me happy irrelevant of what material token came along with it.

[mudder]

Just logged in and saw the prizes related to this challenge, this place is amazing...! No wonder there's such a close knit "family" feeling here...

Many thanks to all involved with this forum, Birdy, once again you amaze me... I can't wait to meet you guys in person...

Cheers,
Mudder

[Glen]

Rich to your above post. There were two entries from outside Australia! A seperate section for them is probably a bit over the top in workload at this end for two!

Rich, I think we should agree to disagree, this isn't the Free Trade Agreement, it is a few prizes offered by one generous individual to get us guys to think about our photography. Your choice if you enter or not, I would like it very much if you do enter but then my competitive side saw the quality of your last entry

[NetMagi]

If it was up to me, I'd consider running alternating competitions, or splitting up the entries into elligible, and inelligible.

I already explained the whole elligible/inelligible bit in a previous post, but the other suggestion (alternating competitions) would go like this:

Competition A:

open ONLY to Aus residents, big prizes


Competition B:

open to ALL members, prizes are things easily posted such as CF cards, books, etc.


This would give everyone an opportunity to feel like part of the action, while still allowing to offer "really hot prizes" to residents only that typically participate MORE than just online (purchases from birddog, attending mini-meets, etc.) I would probably even take it a step further and make entry in competition A contingent upon actually having attended 1 or more 'meet'.

-Rich

[MHD]

Just to put things into perspective with some history: I started running the comps with the initial theme (which was voted for on this forum) without any prizes at all, the conception of these challenges did not involve prizes. I soon found out how generous Birddog is, without being asked or even hinted at out of the blue he offered a prize for comp 1 and has continues to do so for subsequent comps.

The prize giving is independant of the running of the comps. I, along with the help and ideas of the admins, moderators and Birddog, run the comps, Birddog dontates the prizes.

No one benifits from these comps except the community and prize winners (I make a poultry amount, 10USD so far, from the google ads)

I have ideas of other ways to use the comp site (for example an open critique gallery).

Any ideas for the comps is welcome and encouraged.

[NetMagi]

There were two entries from outside Australia! A seperate section for them is probably a bit over the top in workload at this end for two!

I agree, that's way too much work and confusion for a 'handful' or less of entries.

I'm happy to agree to disagree. It was never my intention to change anyone's mind, I've just never been one to keep my mouth shut when something doesn't feel right. It's been known to get me in trouble in the past

I respect your opinion, and furthermore I greatly appreciate you respecting mine.

-Rich

[stubbsy]

Rich

If I was in your position I'd probably have the same views. I guess its like a lot of things you see where there are competition rules that restrict entries or prizes in one way or another. Bottom line is that in the case at hand the restriction is reasonably up front so you don't end up entering only to find out when you win that you don't get the prize. That would really be a bummer.

I seem to recall the idea of an open comp with no prizes was floated a while back by Scott. When/if that eventuates then you have the chance to beat our aussie ar$e$

And in closing I want to thank everybody here for keeping the heat out of the debate and being good citizens discussing what could easily have been a very volatile subject. Special thanks HAVE to go to you Rich for putting your point in a way that was reasoned without being emotional.

[gstark]

Rich,

I can see where you're coming from, and fully understand your points.,

But you've failed to acknowledge a couple of what I thought were well made counterpoints: any person, regardless of residence could easily enter competitions in US or UK magazines or websites, with those contests being subject to similar rules.

It's up to each of us to accept, or not, those rules of entry.

While your suggestion of splitting the contest carries some merit, I think that the workload doesn't justify the means at this time.

And while I can't speak on behalf of Birddog, I'd be very surprised if he wasn't in fact quite disappointed that he cannot support our members from overseas. Unfortunately, that's the way it is, and were he to relocate to somewhere other than Oz, I'm sure that the only thing that would change would be the eligibility rules.

But we must remember that he is supplying the prizes, entirely out of his own goodwill, and out of his own pocket, and as such, we have to accept and respect that the logistics of providing support, even within Australia, are quite daunting.

While respecting and understanding how you feel, we need to accept and fully support his position, just as we Aussies might have to were we to become fortunate enough to attract a similar benefactor/patron in another region oif the world.

The bottom line is that the eligibility remains unchanged from day 1 of the first challenge, but while the prizes just keep getting better and better, and mnore attractive to all, we should all step back a moment and consider the real reason for submitting our entries, and the prizes should only be considered to be the icing on the cake.

Let's now focus on the positive aspects of the challenge, and await the announcement of the subject, so that we can better concentrate our energies on what's important.

[Aussie Dave]

For what my 2 cents is worth, I think the Challenge should either be:

(a) for Australian residents only (as the prizes are only for Australian residents), OR,

(b) it is opened to every member (regardless of location), with no "physical" prizes to be awarded.

I'd like to think that there would still be this much enthusiasm if the D70s was "off the table".

I gave up Ten Pin Bowling (which I had played for 16 years) purely because the people were so focussed on winning the big $$$, all the fun & enjoyment was taken away. When I mentioned to start a league that had no monetary awards (or trophies), I was laughed at. I only hope that these Challenges don't go down the same path.......

[dooda]

Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but for the last challenge wasn't it decided that if you could somehow travel to Australia and personally pick up the prize then that would be accepted? (Just use an address of someone that you know in Aus?) or something like that? Does anyone remember or is this my memory playing tricks on me? I thought it was Neeper. If not no big deal but I was under the assumption that I could, and me having access to relatively cheap airfares Sydney is extremely high on my list of places to visit. A simple yes or no is fine, I'm not necessarily pushing for anything, just clarifying in my mind.

FWIW I should damn well hope that I'm not excluded from the comp just because I'm not eligable for the prize. The sheer glory of kicking Aussie arse is euphoria that I can milk for a month. (looks upwards and shakes violently as eyeballs roll to the back of my head).

[MHD]

Once again the prizes are independant of the comp...
Every member with more than 5 posts (with some excecutive discrimination) is eligable to enter the comp.

If an OS winner is present at the dinner on the 6/8 they can recieve thier prize...

[mic]

WoW, call me dumb but I have just found out about these Comps It's amazing what a person can find for himself if he is bored ( Not Board Greg ) at work.

1st I thought WoW this is pretty good. better have a go at one of these.

2nd I saw all the kafuffal ( please feel free to step in on this word Greg ) for overseas members.

3rd We just can't have everything in life can we It would be frustrating for overseas members.

Oh well, lets all just keep enjoying our little Forum & the generosity of our BirdDog.

Mic.

Any comps coming up on Inverting

[Glen]

Mic, here is the theme, "decisive moment" http://www.d70users.com/viewtopic.php?t=5489&highlight=

You would never be indecisive would you, "shall I invert or not?"

[gstark]

I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

[MHD]

Mic.

Any comps coming up on Inverting

you win you choose!

[NetMagi]

Rich,

I can see where you're coming from, and fully understand your points.,

But you've failed to acknowledge a couple of what I thought were well made counterpoints: any person, regardless of residence could easily enter competitions in US or UK magazines or websites, with those contests being subject to similar rules.

I do understand and acknowledge your points. They were well-made and I continue to respect your point of view. As previously said, even though we agree to disagree, thank you very much for helping to keep this level-headed.

In the end, it is certainly mine, as well as anyone else's choice whether or not they enter the competition. Though it'll be frustrating if in win (which I highly doubt) and can't collect my prize, I'll likely enter anyway. I found the last competition very challenging, and the satisfaction having gotten a shot I was satisfied with was very pleasing. I don't want to miss out on that. And who knows, if by some stroke of insanity I win 1st place, maybe I'll fly down to collect the prize.

-Rich

[dooda]

[quote="NetMagi And who knows, if by some stroke of insanity I win 1st place, maybe I'll fly down to collect the prize.

-Rich[/quote]

I don't know, can we do this? I thought we could but then again I could be dreaming. It's up to Birdie.
I think that you put it well NetMagi; people who want in for the prize and live overseas will not enter anyways, people who want to win for the sheer euphoric indescribable glory of winning will also enter. I think it would be bad faith for the site to limit the comps to only those eligible for the prize. And don't worry MHD, I completely understand that the prizes are completely independent of the comp and are simply a fun add-on to an already fun comp.

[NetMagi]

It says in the revised rules that overseas ppl can pick up their prizes at the meet. But I could have read it wrong. .

[gstark]

It says in the revised rules that overseas ppl can pick up their prizes at the meet. But I could have read it wrong. .

At the Anniversary dinner on the Saturday night.

[Manta]

...(looks upwards and shakes violently as eyeballs roll to the back of my head).

Now THERE'S a defining moment!

[dooda]

So in other words we need to plan on being there, not come by another time when it is convenient to us...because I can't make the anniversary meet. Oh well, hey you can't win them all, and I don't have my hopes up anyways because everyone and their dog is going to be entering into this thing...
The decisive moment eh...? Scratches chin.

[Glen]

Dave and Rich, I would love to be shouting you both a beer at the anniversary meet

[birddog114]

Dave and Rich, I would love to be shouting you both a beer at the anniversary meet

Mix with the top DOWN UNDER REDs whether you're the winner or not.

[dooda]

Dave and Rich, I would love to be shouting you both a beer at the anniversary meet

Mix with the top DOWN UNDER REDs whether you're the winner or not.

You ain't kidding Glen, and I don't even drink Beer, and never heard the term "shouting beer" before. I'm coming down for sure, but it's going to have to be for a meet-up next year, or after I quit my job.

[birddog114]

dooda,
If you don't drink beers, I have number of good reds for you otherwise XO Cognac? Bourbon? Scoth? whatever you name
But no Coke or Pepsi arount and these stuff are prohibited items around here

[dooda]

Birdie,

None of those, even Pepsi and Coke. I can't stand that stuff. I prefer water. Yup, drink tons of water. I hate sodas and don't drink Reds either. I drink your aussie water with great pleasure.

[Nnnnsic]

None of those, even Pepsi and Coke. I can't stand that stuff. I prefer water. Yup, drink tons of water. I hate sodas and don't drink Reds either. I drink your aussie water with great pleasure.

You'd be the only one.

People buy water here.

You probably wouldn't even see the head of Sydney water drinking tap water.

[birddog114]

Birdie,

None of those, even Pepsi and Coke. I can't stand that stuff. I prefer water. Yup, drink tons of water. I hate sodas and don't drink Reds either. I drink your aussie water with great pleasure.

dooda,
Sydney is in "Water Restriction" for a while now , but I'll find you some good waters around

[sirhc55]

ACA had a program on Sydney Water and bottled water - in most cases the Sydney water was actually better for you than bottled water - and cheaper

[Nnnnsic]

Chris, I'd bet that Nine Network would put something in the water to brain wash people to always watch Nine... and then tell people to drink tap water.

[sirhc55]

Spot on Leigh - just like the government does prior to an election

[birddog114]

Spot on Leigh - just like the government does prior to an election

And last night