Card reader

[stephen]

I have just read that you should never connect your camera to you pc and should use a card reader to download your pics.Is there any truth to this and if so why and can someone recommend a card reader thats suitable for a sandisk ultra ii 1gig card.Thanks Stephen

[stubbsy]

Stephen

The reasoning behind this (which is correct) is that doing this while connected to you camera drains your camera batteries. Additionally this avoids the problem of damaging the usb connection on your D70. Card readers cost less than $30 and all are pretty much the same as long as they are USB2 and take a CF card. Since the D70 is USB 1 they are also faster.

[Alex]

I don't have a card reader and while it's dirt cheap I do not really accept the 'damage USB" connector argument. The same then can be said about the damaging card slot pins (which seem more volnurable to me) in the camera. I only have 1 card though and may be if I had more, I would certainly benefit from it. As for the batteries argument, yes, I agree with that.

Am I missing something?

Alex

[johndec]

You can connect your camera to your PC via the supplied cable without problems but it is preferable to use a card reader as:

1. Transfer rate is a lot slower compared to a dedicated card reader.
2. Transfer via the camera is VERY battery draining. Even after transfer if you leave the camera connected, within a short time you will have a flat battery.

Card readers that take CF cards as well as SD, Memory Stick, etc and fit into a spare drive space on your computer can be picked up for ~ $30.

[Alex]

Hmmm.. May be I should be getting on of these. But then again my computer doesn't even have a USB2.0 interface.

Alex

[johndec]

Now if I hadn't got up to get a fresh beer halfway through composing my post, I would have beaten Stubbsy and Alex

Now you can't complain about the helpdesk here, can you Stephen

[stubbsy]

Now if I hadn't got up to get a fresh beer halfway through composing my post, I would have beaten Stubbsy and Alex

Now you can't complain about the helpdesk here, can you Stephen

John

Ever thought of having a bar fridge next to the computer

[johndec]

Now if I hadn't got up to get a fresh beer halfway through composing my post, I would have beaten Stubbsy and Alex

Now you can't complain about the helpdesk here, can you Stephen

John

Ever thought of having a bar fridge next to the computer

Now that's what I call lateral drinking, oops, I mean thinking

[stephen]

il bring the beer you bring the knowledge.Someone else also gave a link to a free pp called Nikon Capture to download to get me started on pp but i cant find it now ,does anyone know where it is? Cheers Stepehen

[phillipb]

Wouldn't you also run the risk of corrupting the card and/or the photos if your camera battery goes flat during a transfer?

[Andyt]

Other reasons to use a card reader:

If there is a power surge / problem, no damage to camera.

Folklore says that if there is a virus (undetected) returning the CF card to the camera and formatting in camera as you should, prevents virus from effecting camera.

My 2cents, Cheers Andyt

[birddog114]

Using USB 1.0 on the Camera to download 1Gb card? are you joking?
Who's in this world still using that method and USB 1.0? guess!!!!!
A USB 2.0 Multicard reader is $26.00, comparing a D70 is $2K.
A PC without USB 2.0 card, get the USB 2.0 PCI card for 15 bucks Aussie and there you go.
Many issues perhaps not yet appear but there're many potential of damaging the USB port on the D70, I confirmed two cases so far I have seen and came across, don't ask me why? perhaps to many excess of beers and reds.
Other case is the USB cable connected to the camera and some of the owner movement hit the cable and dragged the camera to the concrete floor, the lens came off the camera with its body mount
As other said: Battery flat if you forgot to unplug the USB of the PC after download, files corrupted while transferring and battery goes flat.
What are you waiting for???????????????????????????

[gstark]

I have just read that you should never connect your camera to you pc and should use a card reader to download your pics.Is there any truth to this and if so why and can someone recommend a card reader thats suitable for a sandisk ultra ii 1gig card.Thanks Stephen

Stephen,

It's not that you should "never" connect your camera to the pc, it's just that there are better ways.

And using a card reader is infinitely better.

Apart from what's been already said in this thread, there was another thread about two weeks ago on exactly this topic; you would do well to search for that thread as well, as it provided further information on this.

The best procedure is to shoot, move your card to a reader and transfer the files from the card to the pc, replace the card in the camera, and then reformat the card in the camera.

[thaddeus]

Personally, I use a card reader because it's a lot faster than the camera connection. I hadn't thought about the battery issue or the tripping over the cord issue and I think they are good points.

However, I am surprised at the other arguments offered:

1. Damaging USB connection: As Alex says, if you are worried about damaging the USB connection, I think you should be more worried about damaging the CF card connection, eg putting the card in and bending the tiny little pins inside the camera. After all, if you damage the USB connection, you can still use the camera, but if you damage the CF card connection then you can't use it at all!

2. Power surge: The probability of this is very low. I might be worried about this if lightning was crashing around me, though! Or I could use a laptop!

3. Virus: I am sceptical that a PC virus would affect the camera. There is a tiny possibility that someone could write a virus which also drops a firmware payload onto the card, but this would probably be independent of whether you used USB or a direct CF connection.

4. Formatting: I am not sure why the "best" procedure is to reformat the card in the camera after taking photos. Surely this puts your card at risk if your batteries go flat during the format. Plus it simply takes a long time!

[gstark]

Thaddeus,

4. Formatting: I am not sure why the "best" procedure is to reformat the card in the camera after taking photos. Surely this puts your card at risk if your batteries go flat during the format. Plus it simply takes a long time!

Please read this thread which is the thread I referred to in my earlier posting (above).

If you have any further doubts about this, please come back to me.

Regarding your final two points - if you have more than the three quarter charge showing in your battery condition indicator, your battery will not go flat during the the time it takes to format a card.

And formatting takes too long? I think it takes less than 10 seconds on a 1GB 40x Astone card. How can you call that a long time?

[Glen]

Thaddeus,
one advantage of formatting in camera is it is a low level format which matches the camera, a bit like a dos format. There has been talk of out of camera formatting not matching, such as the cf card being formatted as NFTS instead of FAT. This is all very rare stuff, but hey the camera works and is quick so why not?

[boxerboy]

1. Damaging USB connection: As Alex says, if you are worried about damaging the USB connection, I think you should be more worried about damaging the CF card connection, eg putting the card in and bending the tiny little pins inside the camera. After all, if you damage the USB connection, you can still use the camera, but if you damage the CF card connection then you can't use it at all!

There definitely is more chance of damaging the USB connector than the CF connector - because the USB plug is pushed in by hand and is vulnerable to mis-alignment. The CF card is aligned by the guides as you push it in.

Birddogs point is also a good one that the camera is also more vulnerable if it's attached to the computer by the lead e.g. forgetting about it and picking the camera up whilst still attached.

Well that's what I reckon, anyway.

cheers
Peter

[Oneputt]

As with most people I would reckon, my card reader is a permanent part of my PC setup. Opening the camera and slipping it into the reader is so simple and foolproof. Why would you want to do it any other way?

[Alex]

1. Damaging USB connection: As Alex says, if you are worried about damaging the USB connection, I think you should be more worried about damaging the CF card connection, eg putting the card in and bending the tiny little pins inside the camera. After all, if you damage the USB connection, you can still use the camera, but if you damage the CF card connection then you can't use it at all!

There definitely is more chance of damaging the USB connector than the CF connector - because the USB plug is pushed in by hand and is vulnerable to mis-alignment. The CF card is aligned by the guides as you push it in.

Not sure I still agree with that one. I heard of at least one case where the card was insert incorrectly (dont ask me how they managed to do it) and damaged the pins. And as was said, camera can function without USB port but can't with no card in it.

Having said that, I think there are more pros in using a reader. I'm a convert now and am getting a reader, even though I only have SUB 1.0 in my PC.

Alex

[sheepie]

After seeing a certain naval chap (who shall remain nameless) having difficulty in putting his CF card in, but not going so far as to force it, I am sceptacle that 'normal' use can result in damage of the pins. You would surely need to force the card in quite badly (and around the wrong way) to cause such damage.

Having said this, I am sure within the next week or so I will damage my pins! (A bit like not forwarding a chain-letter!)

[gstark]

After seeing a certain naval chap (who shall remain nameless) having difficulty in putting his CF card in, but not going so far as to force it, I am sceptacle that 'normal' use can result in damage of the pins. You would surely need to force the card in quite badly (and around the wrong way) to cause such damage.

If you try to put the CF card in sideways it will go in very easily, because no part of the card is being guided along its edges. If you do this, it will be very easy to damage the pins at the bottom of the slot.

This is the only way that I can see that you possibly do damage to the camera through incorrect insertion of the card, but to do so would be, AFAIC, a user error of the highest (lowest?) order.

There are guides there, and if you cannot feel that they're helping you to insert the card, stop, and review what you're doing.

It's that simple.

[thaddeus]

Thaddeus,

4. Formatting: I am not sure why the "best" procedure is to reformat the card in the camera after taking photos. Surely this puts your card at risk if your batteries go flat during the format. Plus it simply takes a long time!

Please read this thread which is the thread I referred to in my earlier posting (above).

If you have any further doubts about this, please come back to me.

Thanks, I read the thread and I have doubts. I can understand how fragmentation slows down performance of a hard disk because there is a physical head that needs to move. However, I don't see how fragmentation would have any significant affect on the speed of a CF card because there is no head to move. Furthermore, a CF card on a camera has a dream run from a fragmentation perspective: files are usually sequentially, then transferred and deleted. Real fragmentation issues occur when files are appended, which does not happen in the camera. If you have any stats on any speed increases as a result of formatting CF cards in cameras, I would be pleased to understand more.

In regard to recovering deleted files, I simply delete all the files on the card so the filesystem is empty anyway. I expect new files will start at the beginning of the available area and would be easily recoverable. However, I haven't tested this.

Yes, it might be only 5 seconds or whatever, but if I'm going to do something I like to know why, otherwise I'm merely being superstitious

[marcus]

OK here's my 20c worth. I did not have a card reader. I bought one from ebay (multi card reader thingy) it cost $7.50....although shipping was $12.50 but anyway $20 bucks and well worth it!
My life has changed since buying the thing. Super speed compared to before and I as well did'nt like hooking up the D70 via USB. I think the card reader is the way to go.

[joolz]

The other advantage of a CF card reader is it can double as a USB thumb drive. I have a nice, small CF only reader which I sometimes take with me after having transferred some files across to my CF card. I can then take my files wherever I need them.

[gstark]

Thanks, I read the thread and I have doubts. I can understand how fragmentation slows down performance of a hard disk because there is a physical head that needs to move. However, I don't see how fragmentation would have any significant affect on the speed of a CF card because there is no head to move.

The card is still being formatted as though it is a hard disk though. The physical memory actually exists at only one physical place within the card, and fragmentation still occurs.

While there's no head to move, the card's controller needs to know where the next piece of data lives, and needs to jump from "here" to "there" in order to retrieve it. This, while very bloody quick, still takes time.

And it's not just speed; it's space availability as well. Deleted files, in FAT32, are not deleted; they're only flagged as deleted unless and until the space needs to be reclaimed.

Your space utilisation will thus be compromised if you only delete files, rather than reformatting the card.

Furthermore, a CF card on a camera has a dream run from a fragmentation perspective: files are usually sequentially, then transferred and deleted. Real fragmentation issues occur when files are appended, which does not happen in the camera.

See above, and understand how FAT32 "deletes" files. It doesn't. I don't believe that you would be reusing that "free" space when you think you will be.

In regard to recovering deleted files, I simply delete all the files on the card so the filesystem is empty anyway. I expect new files will start at the beginning of the available area and would be easily recoverable. However, I haven't tested this.

And that's where you're misunderstanding the system. You're believeing that the deleted files are, indeed, being deleted. The FAT32 filesystem is never empty once a file has been written to it.

Yes, it might be only 5 seconds or whatever, but if I'm going to do something I like to know why, otherwise I'm merely being superstitious

What's the alternative ??

[stephen]

Err not interupt a discusion but can i ask where you but a card reader from and what type make model i should look for?? Thanks Stephen

[gstark]

Stephen,

look for one at your local PC supplies store. expect to pay in the range of $20 - $30, although Hardly Normals might charge double that.

As long as it reads a CF card, anything else is just good for you.

Get one that's USB2 for maximum throughput, but if your PC doesn't support USB2, you can drop a card in there to cure that problem for about $15.

And if you have trouble matching those prices, talk to Birdy.

[thaddeus]

gstark, Thanks for your comments but I am still not convinced. However, if you think you are saving card writing time by formatting it each time, be my guest - I'll be squeezing the shutter for the next shot!

[gstark]

Thadeus,

Considering that I perform the reformat as soon as I replace the card into the camera, there's no time lost performing this act.

But while you're figuring out why you're losing images, or suffering buffer overruns because of fragmentation, I'll still be shooting.

[Killakoala]

Of course if you use the PC to control your camera then using the USB is the only option.

I connect my Laptop to the camera via USB when i am taking astronomy photos so i can control the process much easier.

However i use a card reader when downloading 'normal' photos. I also format the card in the camera after downloading and reinserting the card. i don't trust Wondoze to do it properly.