LOST

[LOZ]

I can’t believe that I am the only person who wishes this site to remain a SPECIALIST SITE for NIKON ENTHUSIASTS. This site was the only site on the net where I could enjoy reading every post as it related to my choice of camera. Nikon, Canon, Kodak, Pentax all take great photos and there are 100’s of MIXED BAG sites to choose from. However, this site is unique and for this reason it stood out from the rest. I just checked the calendar wishing it was 31st March and it would all be back to normal tomorrow night.

Gary, is this site going commercial, pop ups, ads flashing ect? It may as well, it will be just another CAMERA SITE along with the rest. I wish that I had the talent to start a Nikon Enthusiasts site so that I could wind back the clock and pick up those lost soles that will desert this site. These lost soles were in the wilderness and honed in on D70 users as they found it was comforting to be amongst the same believers.

I’m off to the Red Sea Coast in search of a new MECCA
Laurie

[johndec]

Calm down LOZ, it's not the end of the world I don't have any problems with the proposed changes. Don't forget, each brand will still have it's own sub forums, if you don't want to read about a problem someone is having with a canon lens or body, don't go there.

I would assume things such as "Image Reviews and Critiques" will be for all members, but heh, who cares. I enjoy looking at good pics and I don't really care if they were taken with a D2X or a Box Brownie

[PiroStitch]

Hi Loz,

I can understand what you mean by wanting this site and forum to be Nikon based and that it has nothing to do with the following:

* That anybody here is a bunch of die hard Nikon fans and we think any other camera should burn especially Canon
* That we think we are more superior than Canons, etc

Personally I was quite shocked to see that the site had expanded to include Canons and potentially other brands as well due to my horrendous experience at dpreview.com. There were too many people with low self esteems having to justify their existence by pissing on others and their cameras.

As our admins have mentioned, and pretty much everybody else on these forums, it's the photographer that matters, not the camera itself. Who gives a hoot with an extra 2Mp? If someone wants to believe they can take better photos with a Canon, then so be it...let him or her live in the ignorant world that they are so engrossed in.

I don't believe that there will be commercials or pop-ups, etc later on down the track but I won't be surprised if we end up having club sponsorship of some sort and by displaying the sponsor's logo. That's something that I've seen with quite a few sites but it's mainly to help pay the bills. I trust the judgement of all the admins as they would have the site's best interest

My preference WOULD be to keep it a Nikon site, but that's my personal bias That's not to say I wouldn't speak or contribute just because another person is using a Canon. If they start a pissing contest, well then that's a totally different issue If you're unhappy with the Canon section, then don't read that particular section.

I could write a whole lot more but gotta work

Hope that helps.

Cheerio,

Wayne

[leek]

I had some concerns at first Laurie, but then some of my friends are Canon DSLR users and can equally benefit from a lot of the advice and techniques discussed here, not to mention from the friendly environment of a mini-meet or workshop... I brought one brave soul along to Birddog's last week and he enjoyed it a lot...

Yes there will be increased site traffic, and yes there is a danger that things may degenerate into a pissing contest, but I think that it's up to us to quickly stamp that sort of thing out...

Hopefully as the idea evolves, this site will retain the same friendly atmosphere.

Some thought will need to be put into which sections should be made common and which brand specific, but that won't be too hard...

I don't know if it is possible, but maybe some sort of selective RSS feed can be provided so that we can opt out of certain sections of the forum... (Leigh??? Is that possible / desirable?)

[birddog114]

LOZ,
I'm the one "die hard" with Nikon, I joined this camp due to the sickness I got from DPR with many "junkies" and crappy posts, The good guys aren't there anymore, they left cos they're too sick about the site.
11 months passed, I've found this site can be controlled and moderate by the admins and mods.
Let the C joins and we share the experiences from all. We respect them and looking they will do the same to us. Time will tell of course.

[Glen]

Loz, I don't think we will be overrun by the marauding hordes (joking).

We have 900 members who predominantly shoot Nikon, our patron and all admin and moderators shooot Nikon, all comp prizes are Nikon based, my concern is the other way, I hope we seem neutral and welcoming enough for the new members who shoot differently.

As Johndec said I appreciate an image however it was taken, I may not share an identical lens lust as the lens lines are different between brands, but I can still respect an individual, their beliefs & skills and their images. We can only learn from others. A year ago if you asked me to name a tripod I would have said Manfrotto, I now love my Gitzo due to Birddy's direction. Many here shoot with Canon right angle viewfinders or the Canon 500D diopter on their Nikons, that cross pollination started somewhere.

The good info will still be here, just look at what you want, I doubt I will read much of the Canon Corral which refers to "which Canon lens?" type of post, but then I also cant understand half the comments under the computer section and also dont open posts such as "what is the best tripod under $35, I am choosing between these three" as it doesn't interest me. You will still find all you need, including someone to talk about a backfocus issue with or the latest D70 firmware, hopefully with similar ease as you do now. We may even learn where is the cheapest spot to buy a 500D diopter or similar Or a better way to take a shot! Much of what I have learnt here applies to any camera, not a specific unit or brand. There are already differences between our membership as D2X owners have different concerns to D100 owners or D70 owners. I think we were all quite fortunate to be here when the explosion of DSLR's took place and lucky enough to find each other at the same time. I doubt that single model domination within a brand (D70 for Nikon or 300 for Canon) will ever happen again. In six months the Nikon stable will have a D50, D70s, D200, D2Hs and D2X. Those are very diverse products, far more than our almost single model club. A D50 will probably have almost as much in common with a Rebel owner (budget at least) as a D2X owner (excluding name on the top and lenses).

Try it for a while and let us know what you think in a few months time. We have had a few Canon members here for some time and as much as I look at myself, I don't think I have caught anything yet

[LOZ]

This is a UNIQUE site for what it is WHY change what is wrong with it that it needs to change .Why not just start up a d350users site if they feel so lost. We will be just an Australian Sub Branch of dpreview.com

[Glen]

Loz, what about the guys with the 300 or 20D or MK11s? Or we have some guys with D2X's in our D70 site? Should we ask them to leave for being different?

[glamy]

Loz,
Considering the people moderating this site and the type of membership, I do not think we are going to go down the "dpreview" way. DSLR users will appreciate the atmosphere and will want to keep it that way.
Cheers,
Gerard

[birddog114]

Can I leave, cos I shoot with the D2 series?

[Glen]

Loz, just to reassure you, this will not degenerate into the likes of other sites. As said before, if I see a post which is the wrong stuff I just delete it. I know others do the same. Other sites are too big for moderators, we are not. This will still be the friendly site.

[gstark]

Laurie,

Pop-ups?? Advertising?

I'm quite insulted, and I think I'll go and stand in a corner and sulk!

But not for long.

Have a look at the disruption and upset that we caused with our April Fools' Day event; the reaction of the members was made very clear at that time, and while I sensed the desire to remain independant (of Maxwell/Nikon etc) there was no undercurrent (that I could detect) of any wish to simply remain a Nikon only site.

Indeed, our intent to become DSLRUsers was made clear about a month earlier (the decision even earlier), primarily because remaining D70Users.com is a course bound to, eventually, self destruct.

Consider that the first version of the camera disappeared from store shelves within 12 months of their first arrival; how long before the D70s disappears?

Consider also how we might incorporate the D50?

And what about the (rumoured) D90?

We thought about all of that, and the fact that we were already welcoming users of other brand cameras anyway, and decided that broadening the outlook was going to be the best way forward.

I cannot control how others might feel about that, but I can control what happens here, on the forums. As I've said, we have a team of mods that I think are second to none.

Equally, we have a community that is friendly, understands and respects what we're doing, and importantly, respects all of the other members of the community. I think that's a very large part of what makes this place special, and I don't think that adding a section for Canon users to discuss issues unique to their systems will detract from that, any more than what's being discussed in, say, the Melbourne section, might not appeal to our Brisbane (or British) members.

While I say that the mods are great and do a great job, I have to say that my tasks, as a mod and as an admin, are very few and far between, and that's entirely due to the quality and attitude of the community that we have built up.

And that is, I believe, the key. As long as the members keep this place nice and tidy, and a fun but informative place to hang out, I think that the addition of system specific sections for those not fortunate enough to own Nikons will only add to the strength of what we have, rather than become a weakness.

Am I making any sense here ??

[big pix]

A camera is but a tool which we all use for the capture of images, it does not matter what badge is on the front of the camera but the simple sharing and learning we all benifit from on this forum. Experence here comes in many forms, help with an image, choice of printer, help with a hard drive, screens, photoshop, nikon capture, the list goes on and on, and you cannot get a lot of this advice walking into a store.
So lets not loose sight of what it is all about but the simple joy of sharing "PHOTOGRAPHY"

cheers
bp

[wendellt]

Keep it real gary

I think it's very noble of you and the other mods keeping this site non profit
I mean helping others and hosting vast amounts of images on your server all at your expense is very N O B L E - K I N D

I think when we suggest advertising we are trying to say we recognise your sacrifice and would like to see some monetary compensation for you. The site has given so much and you ask little in return. See it as compliment Sir, it's only fair

We users recognise what you are doing

maybe get a limited number of sponsors, with the stipulation that they have to advertise on the homepage with a well designed banner that is non distracting

[Nnnnsic]

Loz,
I know the concern you have and I understand it, but we won't let this site degenerate into what DPR has turned into.

Will not.
Shall not.

Hell, we'll get more moderators to help us cope if it gets down to that and we'll start banning people!

Nah, in all seriousness, this site was never made to be commercial and it's something Dad (gstark) has stressed from the beginning.

However, the D70 has been replaced with the D70s. It was expected it would be with the D90, but that has changed and we'll probably see that box a tad later.

So our box is no longer our old box... let's adapt... let's invite the rest of the world and not turn into whatever lingering wasteland DPR's forums have turned into.

What about the people who shoot on the D50, the D2x, and the older Nikon's?
What about those on the more than capable Fuji's or Pentax's or Konica Minolta or Olympus?
And yes, what about those on the Canon's?

The techniques are the same... the way you use the camera is essentially the same... the only thing that changes between all of us that use a Digital SLR is the body and the controls on that body.

Now surely, a place as informative, as fun, and as interesting as this can be shared with people not just in the Nikon world but with the other camera worlds, too?

I mean, look at how many people will buy the 350D just because some idiotic salesman will claim that it's better than the others because it has 8 megapixel?!

Surely, the people who'd believe that straight off of the bat, would absolutely endeavour from the amount of knowledge and instruction that a place like this can provide...

[birddog114]

Keep it real gary

I think it's very noble of you and the other mods keeping this site non profit
I mean helping others and hosting vast amounts of images on your server all at your expense is very N O B L E - K I N D

I think when we suggest advertising we are trying to say we recognise your sacrifice and would like to see some monetary compensation for you. The site has given so much and you ask little in return. See it a s compliment, it's only fair

we users recognise what you are trying to do

maybe get a limited number of sponsors, with the stipulation that they have to advertise on the homepage will a well designed banner that is non distracting

I don't think this help and work.
We (Gary + Leigh + Glen + Myself) discussed these many times in the past and Gary wants to maintain the way it is, so I support his ideas same as other.

[LOZ]

Don't be silly Glen a D2x is a Nikon This time next year our MONTHLY meets will be held at the local RSL Club cheep beer crap food pokies tab and keno ( remember those great noodles and superb vintage wine ) And the main subject will be not about lens lust but WHY did we F#!@#$%^& change .

[the foto fanatic]

Laurie,

Consider that the first version of the camera disappeared from store shelves within 12 months of their first arrival; how long before the D70s disappears?

Consider also how we might incorporate the D50?

And what about the (rumoured) D90?

We thought about all of that, and the fact that we were already welcoming users of other brand cameras anyway, and decided that broadening the outlook was going to be the best way forward.

Yep, it all makes sense. The D70 will eventually find its way to electronic heaven, and many of us will upgrade/change to another camera.

It is understandable to be resistant to change. We have experienced a very close and friendly environment, and we are concerned that that may alter. I don't think it will change too much or too quickly, given that we already have a membership of close to 1000.

Rather than jump to any wrong conclusions and jump out now, why not hang around and see how it develops? That can't do any harm.

If, after you've tried it, you find that it's not for you, well .....

But IMHO, having a forum about photography is the important thing, not the specific tool used by individual photogs.

[wendellt]

I RESPECT that
just saying i am impressed with what you have done, and can't begin to to understand why your doing this site at your expense, it's probably some self fulfillment thing.

I mean if i walk into a shop asking for advice a salesperson will consider me a sucker

here I can get to the truth of the matter and get some real advice!

[huynhie]

I enjoy participating on this site for a number of reasons eg- the atmosphere is very friendly and social aspect (meets).

The funny thing is I dont even own a D70 or a DSLR. I am still happy with my F5. My wife was the first person in my family to own a digital camera!

As long as the atmospher is still the sam than I'll stay

[birddog114]

The funny thing is I dont even own a D70 or a DSLR.

Not too long my dear friend!
Maxwell & EPSON gave me the consigment note by O/N from AAE yesterday morning, that why I'm still stuck here and am waiting for the truck which contains the Epson R1800 and the D2Xs.

[Nnnnsic]

It's not about self fulfillment, Wendell.

It's more about having a place where people can be people and just talk.. communicate and learn and have fun without the fear that someone is going to turn conversation into a bashing.

It's ridiculous that forums can degenerate into that level where you no longer get involved in a conversation but a verbal orgy of mass confusion and slander!

Not this place.

Ain't gonna happen.

I've been waiting to ban someone for a while now.

[huynhie]

The funny thing is I dont even own a D70 or a DSLR.

Not too long my dear friend!
Maxwell & EPSON gave me the consigment note by O/N from AAE yesterday morning, that why I'm still stuck here and am waiting for the truck which contains the Epson R1800 and the D2Xs.

I can't wait

[gstark]

Wendell,

I RESPECT that
just saying i am impressed with what you have done, and can't begin to to understand why your doing this site at your expense, it's probably some self fulfillment thing.

I mean if i walk into a shop asking for advice a salesperson will consider me a sucker

here I can get to the truth of the matter and get some real advice!

The expense of running the site is minimal; I think I spend more on ... just about everything.

Why am I doing this? 'Cos I want to, and I enjoy helping the greater community, I guess.

Certainly, since starting this site, I've learned heaps, had a ball, and made a ton of new friends all over the world. What more can one ask of this site?

[huynhie]

Vicky enjoys D70users as well...

Not that she has ever logged on. She enjoys getting together with Tran and Chrissine at the meets

[Greg B]

Just a small comment - regardless of whether we include Canon users or other brands, and notwithstanding the rise of other Nikon models (and the fact that the d70 is or will be no longer available) - I would like to see the forum retain the original name. Many organisations retain outmoded or superceded names for the continuity, and as a nod to their origins.

(By the way, I have no difficulty with the forum being broadly inclusive. The tone is really what matters, and Gary and Leigh have very strong views on that, supported by me and Glen and Geoff as moderators [I am taking the liberty of speaking for them here]. )

[Nnnnsic]

I actually anticipate that happening, Greg.

I feel it'll probably be D70Users with the sub-title of DSLRUsers because of Dad's feelings on it (and it is his site)...

That said, I also know he doesn't like my logo much and wants to retain the original LCD logo that I first did from the site... so it may well stay D70Users but will also have DSLRUsers connecting to it.

Hell, I might even give it some random urls...

[LOZ]

That is it off to Hardley Normal to find new friends and purchase a 12mp Casio P&S( that will end my lens lust !) + 8gig card and shoot my self to death in jpeg Birddy please send Mrs Birddys noodle recipe so I can remember the good old day.
LOZ founder of CASIO USERS.COM NB Nikon Canon Pentax KOJACK please do not apply. THIS IS A SITE DEDICATED TO CASIO ONLY . If you wish to join a CAMERA site may I suggest that you try dSLRusers they are a new site that cater for dissatisfied dpreview .com members PS SPONSER REQUIRED


:lo lLAURIE

[gstark]

That is it off to Hardley Normal

Actually, I'm there right now.

And sitting just 15 meters or so away from me is a 10D user. I've invited him to a couple of our meets, but as yet he's not been able to make 'em. I don't think his 4WD would make it up Birddog's driveway.

[Aussie Dave]

LOZ
if you want a truly dedicated Nikon site, perhaps try http://www.nikonians.com

I thought a few people might be put off by the change, but getting this upset is ridiculous. If you'd paid money to subscribe, then perhaps I can see this "flare-up" being worthwhile, but what have you got to lose if you stick around and see what happens ??? Carrying on like this, you are only burning bridges.....IMHO.

I imagine all the major contributors to this great website will still be here so I can't see why it will make any difference anyway.

I am prepared to give it a go and see how things pan out. I think everyone can at least extend the same courtesy to Gary's wishes (it is HIS site after all - and can be pulled down at anytime). If it degenerates into a huge pissing contest, I'll say my goodbyes and leave gracefully....though I believe all the Moderators when they say they will not let this happen. I can even see that having others can potentially enhance the knowledge that is on offer here.

After all, Nikon owners are not the be-all-and-end-all....although we'd like to believe it. How many of us bag Nikon for crap software, or stupid WB encryption decisions ?? Everyone has something to contribute.....even some of us that use SIGMA lenses

If you don't believe the Moderators intentions, that's your right and good luck to you in using your Casio P&S....

[mic]

Canon is just an inverted NIKON

Come all Canonians, come play with us all in the grass with our Digital Wonder Toys.

You are welcome.

Mic.

[stubbsy]

Just my 2 cents. We certainly talk about camera specific stuff here, but there's also lots of talk about things like:

• Photoshop techniques
• Lenses
• Shooting ideas
• Post processing
• Image critiques

This stuff is (mostly) non camera specific. Having other dSLR users here just broadens the opinions, viewpoints and information available on these sorts of topics. Sure It will feel a little strange - I'll have to look to see if a comment is in the Canon Corral or whatever, but mostly I think it will be worth it if we maintain our current sense of community and have the benefit of the knowledge and expereince of those dslr users who aren't Nikon owners (and to lay my cards on the table - I think those who don't have Nikon are missing out in bang for buck terms - but in a democracy choice is important and good luck to them).

[Oneputt]

My photographic buddy uses Canon. It adds a little spice to the friendship

[joolz]

My photo-shooting/business partner and friend also shoots Canon.
We just keep trying to convince each other to switch brands.
(but he has a Nikon lens adaptor )

I know where you are coming from Loz. I will miss the sense of exclusivity and brand camaraderie, but I think the horizons will expand a little and we will have more input from lots of useful people. As long as the good sense of community remains (which, with the mods I think it will) then I'll stick around.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[rjlhughes]

Does Birddog sell those Nikon adaptors? I hope not, his lens lust epidemic is more contagious than avian flu round here!

Seriously, Joolz proved how useful the broad information base here is with a detailed and superbly appropriate response about Vosonics this morning in another thread.

There's a lot more to this hobby than lenses or bodys.