Understanding SB800 flash modes

[samester]

Hi all,

I use my SB800 in two different ways, outdoors in sunlight for fill or outdoors at night. I'm predominantly shooting people no more than a few metres away from me.

I use daylight fill quite often, normally set the camera in P or A mode with front curtain sync and TTL BL on the flash. If i remember i stick the diffusion dome on the flash and dial in -1. I'm usually in a rush to take the shot so i don't have any time to put too much thought into it.

Other time i use the flash is outdoors and at night with no real background lighting. I usually set the camera in P mode and flash in AA mode - no diffuser no compensation.

I typically don't have too much time to fool around with settings - the camera is set and when the opportunity presents itself i pick up the cam and shoot away. Almost always have the cam set to ISO 200.

I'm not sure what the best flash modes/settings are for my two different uses. I haven't been able to find much info on when to use the differnt flash modes and example of which is better than the other for a particular situation and why. Can anyone help ??

Many thanks,
Sam.

[samester]

thoughts anyone ?

would be great to hear any suggestions.

[genji]

hi m8

u haven't mention any prob u r having if any. r the images using your current setting coming out over/under exposed??

if so y dont u post some images for us to see. if the images r find then, i reckon u have the right setting for your type of photography.

[Snowycam]

Samester

As Genji recommended, your pics may be fine already.

If you want to go further then I offer the following limited knmowledge.

First you need to understand manual flash. Then you need to see how the various modes on the SB-800 or any other flash, automatically does for you, what you would do manually anyhow.

EG.

Manual flash.

Lens f8 then flash f8. Shutter at sync speed or less. Its all about the f stop.

Now half power. Fill flash = half power. Usually.

If your scene = f8 then 1/2 power is f5.6. (shutter does not matter in this case, rember sync speed or less).

If scene = f5.6 then 1/2 power =f4.

Therefore if you are shooting a person outside during the day and the person meters at f8/ 125th then for fill flash simply dial in f5.6 on your flash. Flash will produce half the power of the ambient light.

The trouble is the SB-800 doesn't let you dial in f5.6 or any other f stop. As fas as I know.

The solution is to buy another flash with f stops listed or to understand your SB-800 enough to do the same.

Back soon. Work to be done.

[PiroStitch]

Genji, you either sms or msn too much

Samester, I tend to use Manual mode on the camera and shutter speed around 1/50. On the SB800, either TTL or A/AA mode and set the f stop there to match the aperture I've set on the camera. If you don't have time to stuff around, try using TTL or AA and set everything else on your camera.

I read from this thread http://www.d70users.net/viewtopic.php?t=6750 specifically Onyx's post not to bother with the diffuser.

Snowy, you can set the the f stop on the sb800. go to AA mode and hold down select for a few seconds then the menu comes up. Go to AA/A and select A mode, then exit. You can now manually dial in the fstop. I tried this method then switched to AA and I can't notice any difference....

[samester]

I've found results to be a little unpredictable at times, will try to dig up some shots.

For example the other week i was out and took a few outdoor shots, balanced fill, front curtain with camera in P mode i think, no flash compensation - slightly cloudy in the middle of the day.

Person i was shooting had their head tilted down in the first two pics. Whilst still looking through the view finder i asked them to lift their head and i took another two pics. First two came out fine but last two (with face towards the lens) had the face over exposed with the hotspots rendering the pics useless. I was extremely surprised that the subtle change in pose had such a drastic effect on exposure, especially since the 4 pics were taken almost sequentially. Granted i didn't compensate

I'm mainly looking for confirmation that i'm doing the right thing with the D70 and SB800 combo - couldn't find any doco on what flash/camera modes are best to use in the two situations i encounter most frequently.

Thanks,
Sam

[Hlop]

The trouble is the SB-800 doesn't let you dial in f5.6 or any other f stop. As fas as I know.

The solution is to buy another flash with f stops listed or to understand your SB-800 enough to do the same.

Hmm. That's solution ...... I'd try to use flash exposure compensation to one stop instead of buying new flash  BTW, for the fill flash Thom Hogan suggests EV compensation on flash in manual mode between 1.7 and 2.3

[Snowycam]

Yes you are right Spirostitch

I am still learning the SB800 myself.

Samester. Even though you say the sugject was changed only a little bit i am wondering how much of the subject filled the frame.

Were you in close to the persons head, filling the frame?.

Also i find the SB800 over exposes the skin when close to the subject.

[Hlop]

 BTW, for the fill flash Thom Hogan suggests EV compensation on flash in manual mode between 1.7 and 2.3

Have to correct myself ...

He suggests EV compensation between -1 and -1.7 for people and between -1.7 and -2.3 for objects in shadow

[Hlop]

I read from this thread http://www.d70users.net/viewtopic.php?t=6750 specifically Onyx's post not to bother with the diffuser.

He didn't say anything about not to bother with diffuser that was about reflector card if I understood it correctly. Accordingly to usage of diffuser, Nikon recommends to use it simultaneously with wide-angle adaptor, especially in case when you have nothing to bounce light from

[genji]

with camera in P mode i think,

thats your problem, P is for professional, i set mine to A for ametaur, works perfectly all the time!

seriously..with P dont have much control because the cam is in charge, with A at least u have some control, chimp and use the sb800 to exp compensate.

[samester]

many thanks to all that have replied, your thoughts and suggestions are much appreciated.

here are the pics in question, taken within 5 sec of each other.

each shot shows the top half of the complete image (obsiously resized but no other pp).

exif data

1/400 @ F/11
matrix metering
camera in P mode
balanced i-TTL
ISO 200
no flash or exp. comp (oops)
kit lens at 25mm
raw

the subjects face occupies about 7% of the total complete frame, i just find it a little odd that a the head tilt caused such dramatic differences in fill. i'd happily accept it if all pics came out with a few hotspots and kick myself for leaving the camera in P mode but i was expecting a little less confusion from from i-TTL. he even had a nice 11.5% grey shirt on - what more can the camera ask for

i usually dial in -1 flash exposure comp in these situations but forgot my brain at home that day unfortunately.

<img src="http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b155/samester/flashpics.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

well at least the shadows are gone in the second pic, minor victory

[PiroStitch]

I read from this thread http://www.d70users.net/viewtopic.php?t=6750 specifically Onyx's post not to bother with the diffuser.

He didn't say anything about not to bother with diffuser that was about reflector card if I understood it correctly. Accordingly to usage of diffuser, Nikon recommends to use it simultaneously with wide-angle adaptor, especially in case when you have nothing to bounce light from

Yeeks I stand corrected

[Hlop]

Samester,

I'm too far from being a flash expert but can try to analyze these two images - in the first image there is more white color (cap's sun guard) and meter "thinks" it's bright enough blasting less flash than to the second image where man faces camera and there is less white, so, it's blasting flash stronger

Another point and here I have to qoute Thom Hogan again, you don't wanna use exposure compensation on flash in TTL BL mode because it's hardly predictble itself but with EV compensation it's even less predictable

PiroStitch,
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like patronizing you Just was fighting for the truth

[PiroStitch]

No probs Mikhail I prefer truth over false advice anyday

[samester]

Samester,

I'm too far from being a flash expert but can try to analyze these two images - in the first image there is more white color (cap's sun guard) and meter "thinks" it's bright enough blasting less flash than to the second image where man faces camera and there is less white, so, it's blasting flash stronger

thanks for your thoughts mate

there was also a bit more white in the bottom half of the pic - sides of the boat are white. i'd have thought that the peak of the cap wouldn't be that significant given matrix metering and the seemingly slight difference in additional white surface area when the subject tilted his head (given that the peak of the cap would capture say 2-3% of the total frame).

good observation though - thanks.

[Matt. K]

It's becoming obvious to me that nobody understands how to correctly use their SB 800. Including me. Therefore I have set myself the task of becoming an expert and posting what I learn on the forum. Let me see now....which way do the batteries go in? Nope.....push it in sideways maybe? Damn...now I can't get it out...where's that screwdriver? DOH! Something cracked. Where's my superglue? DOH! Screwdriver is glued in.

[Hlop]

DOH! Screwdriver is glued in.

Hi Matt,

Can I suggest to use a hammer? It's my favorite