Where can I find camera comparisons on this forum?

[informer]

Hi all!

I live in Japan, so I have access to all the camera stuff and so on. I wasn't sure where to find information about the D70 and how it compares with other cameras, so I thought I start here.

If you want to skip the intro, go to the part where it says *** DEAL ****.

I've been using the compact digital cameras for some time. One of the things that I liked about my old digital cameras, was how compact and easy they were to carry around.

However, I long for more. Better quality, vibrant colours, great impressions. Plus, I'm going on a road trip so I need something to capture the moments for day, night and for the unpredictable. I feel that getting a DSLR now would be the right time.

I've just bought myself an awesome printer (CANON MP770 - http://cweb.canon.jp/pixus/lineup/mp770/index.html), which prints awesome A4 colour printouts. That will prepare me for an interesting hobby of photo taking and printing.

So, I've looked at 3 DSLR cameras. Here I've listed the plus and minuses for each of them according to my needs :

1. Canon Rebel
+ second cheapest among the three
+ 8 megapixels
+ lightest to the Pentax
+ second smallest to the Pentax
- has a few models which confuses me


2. Pentax *istDS
+ takes SD memory cards (compatible with my phone, PDA, notebook)
+ second lightest
+ smallest of the three
+ cheapest among the three
- doesn't seem as popular as the others


3. Nikon D70
+ touted as the standard for affordable DSLR
+ fast operation
- most expensive among the three (though I found a deal for a second hand D70 which I will mention later)
- seems like the heaviest and biggest (not really a problem if the camera is really better than the others)
- has a claimed moire problem which the other cameras do not have
- seemed a bit old compared to the others

I like the idea of a fast startup camera, one that is ready to take pictures instantly upon turning the camera on.

I also like the idea of taking a few rapid automated shots that's only possible on these high end cameras.

I've no idea about lens, so I will have to rely on the advices of DSLR users. I don't think I will become a serious photographer since I'm not dedicated enough. I still want to take good quality pictures though and am willing to learn the manual controls of a camera.

So, when comparing these 3 cameras
- I liked the Canon for its popularity (meaning that there would be extensive support for it) and great performance
- I liked the Pentax for the small size and SD memory card
- I liked the D70 because its performance is very good, very fast

I like the Pentax and its size, but there isn't much going on about it. The Canon seems to draw me because of the reviews, megapixels and popularity. The Nikon seems like a great camera, but one that needs to be taken with care because its the most expensive as well as the biggest and heaviest. It is also the oldest, is it still king?

Size and weight is not so much of a concern for me, if its good I can live with that. I'm after something that will last me a long time.

*** DEAL ****************************************************
Now here's the deal breaker. Someone I know wants to sell his D70 which he only bought this year (had to sell because he's leaving Japan). He has the following :

1x Nikon D70 body, battery, 64meg mem card , PC software (Picture Project 1.0) and cables
1x Nikon AF Zoom Nikkor 28-80mm f/3.3-5.6 lens
1x Nikon AF Zoom Nikkor 70-300mm f/4-5.6 lens
1x Nikon battery charger (100-240v) and adapter plug (JP > AU) ok for Australia, no transformer necessary.
1x NiCad/LiIon battery pack adapter, possible to use readily available batteries (CR2 type) instead of Nikons battery included.
1x LowePro camera bag, possible to fit the camera, both lenses and all accessories in except tripod.
1x VF aluminium tripod and bag, extendable to 1.5m high

So with these, how much do you think it is worth? He is offering under $900 USD. Is that a good deal considering the additional stuff? Are the lens any good?

I think I can trust that the camera is in good condition. It just seems like a good deal considering that the D70 is a great camera right now. I'm not sure how future models can improve on it, does anyone feel that the D70 could be improved? Or is the D70 so good, that it will last for the next 5-10 years?

My apologees for such a long thread, but I am serious about getting a good camera, and with this deal, I just want to know whether the D70 is worth it compared to the others.

Many thanks in advance.

[PiroStitch]

If you want to have a look at how the D70 performs, have a look at the image and critique section of the forum

How long will it last? Quite a while No doubt once you get it, you'll be lusting after lenses and before long, you'll be lusting after the D2X...not because the D70 is a poor camera, but it's the wow factor

Your friend's deal sounds pretty good as you'll be getting the kit lens + the 70-300 which is alright but with tripod and bag too. If you don't like the lens, just ebay it.

Sounds like you've done a lot of research, but the judging from what you've written, it doesn't sound like you've held each camera in your hand and tested it. Go to a camera shop and try each one out and see which one you prefer.

Consider the range of lenses available to you as well when comparing between the 3.

I personally purchased the D70 as the 300D, which was the competitor at the time, was just a piece of plastic to me. I preferred the solid and robust feel of the D70.

[Link]

I don't think your mate's deal is not that good; the pirce is Ok but it doesn't offer the real kit lens, which is the 18-70mm DX. In practice, it means you'll be missing a wide angle, a focal lenght that is very useful for photographying landscape, buildings or interiors - you need that for your road trip.

Regarding your choice of camera, I haven't used all three of them (I have a Nikon D70); but for the use you describe, I think all three would be more than enough.

If you go for the Rebel, make sure to get the 350D (the 300D is much slower). 8 MP doesn't make much difference compared to the Nikon's 6 MP; and I think you'd better try them to get an idea of the ergonomics.

Link.

[PiroStitch]

Whoops! Misread it. The kit lens is 18mm to 70mm My mistake

[leek]

(had to sell because he's leaving Japan) ??? Why is that a good reason?

As has been stated already, the 28-80mm lens is crap compared to the true Kit lens which is the 18-70mm...

The D70 is a far better camera than the Canon 300D

I have no knowledge of the Pentax camera, so I won't comment...

Despite the above comments, the deal offered seems very reasonable assuming everything is in good condition...

The D70 may well last for the next 5 years, but more important is what lenses you buy to go with it...

Hope this helps (slightly)

[Nnnnsic]

The 300D is a piece of junk. The 350D is much better.

That said, both the Pentax, the Canon 350D, and the Nikon D70 are seriously good pieces of equipment.

You should play with each of them. They all are going to have their good and bad points.

I'm absolutely biased to Nikons because I was raised on them (the drop test helps too, mind you), but Canon do some serious glass, too.

In my opinion, Pentax haven't been good since the 60's and 70's, but you should see which camera you like best because all those snazzy features won't help you if you hate the feel of the camera, eh?

[gstark]

Hi, and welcome.

What's the current new US$ cost for the D70s kit? I'd expect the price your friend is asking to be somewhat below that as he's NOT got the standard kit lens - the lens in question is significantly less expensive; the 70-300 - is that the G series? I'm going to assume so, and again, it's a very inexpensive and low-end lens. And the CF card ... 64MB? Won't last 5 minutes in the field - the minimum needed for usae with the camera is 512MB; 1G is better.

Longevity of the D70 should be way beyond 5 years, depending upon how you look after it. We have Nikons that are 30 years old here, and I don't see why the D70 shouldn't remain serviceable for a number of years to come. That's not to say that it won't become technologically obsolete - it was the day it was released. But that isn't a factor that affects its usability; my 6 year old CP950 is still serviceable, but in digital terms it's ancient.

Getting back to the camera questions - all are good cameras, and you will not find any comparisons between them here; that's not what this site is about. The best I can suggest is for you to go and have a play with all three and see how they each feel in your hand, not forgetting that the Nikon D50 might also be a suitable camera for you, too.

Ignore marketing claims about sensor sizes; for all practical purposes, the differneces between 6 and 8 MP are purely academic, and in the photos that you'll be making, any such differences won't be able to be easily discerned.

[informer]

Thanks everyone for your feedback!

I've never owned a serious camera before, so buying expensive things like lenses is the first time. I have played around with most DSLR cameras, but never really took them seriously because I was very interested in the JVC MC500 (a hybrid digital/3CCD video camera). I thought the photo capabilities of that camera would be good enough but it was kind of disappointing in low light. Its video was very good though (was HD based so no tapes or disc).

I never noticed much about the D50. I thought it might be a compromised version of the D70, but as reviews has turned out, it is actually quite a good camera which fits a lot of my requirements (smaller size, uses SD card). My 4GB PDA accepts both SD and CF so no problem offloading files to free up space on the memory card.

The D50 with the AF-S DX ED 18～55mm F3.5-5G Lens cost about $800.

One thing that I forgot to mention, was about the lenses. I hear that Canon has a better range of lenses that are a little more affordable than the Nikon, is this true? I'll take a look at the 18-70mm DX.

The price for my friend's D70 has dropped to $800 USD. The lenses that he has are indeed the cheaper G series. He said he only bought it this year so perhaps he doesn't want to lose a lot on the deal. Is that a good deal or would the D50 be better?

Some of the photos that I enjoy taking are pictures of my car, people, sports (like basketball), scenery (Japan is beautiful sometimes).

Again, many thanks for your feedback!

[Marvin]

My Dad has an istDS and my brother has a 300d and I have a d70. I find the *istds very annoying to use as you have to go through the menu to change a lot of the options, which on the rebel and the d70 you can use the command dials. It might not seem like much but when you want to quickly change, it's a pain in the butt. The pentax lenses also don't seem as sharp to me.
As for the others, I know several people with a 300d and they are very happy, as are most of the people with a d70. The 300d seems to have more saturated colous out of the camera. I think that whichever one you pick you will enjoy so, like the others said, go out there, fell them and try them out for yourself.
(oh, and the guy at the camera store when I was researching said to me that he wouldn't even use the Canon kit lens as a paperweight!)

[christiand]

Hi everyone,

I believe a lot of what has been said about the second hand D70 and in comparing it to other digital SLRs is true.
I would have one reservation.
If extended warranty is exactly what is says (I haven't had to make any claims beyond the standard warranty), I would strongly recommend a new camera with extended warranty.
I had the flash die, pixels die and the shutter misfiering within the first year.
If that had happened after the standard warranty period and I would have had to pay for repairs I would have been extremely unhappy.
I expect to be able to use the camera or a replacement for a number of years at no more cost than extended warranty.

Regards,

CD

[informer]

Well I tried the D50 and got mixed reaction. When I tried taking a picture of a camera nearby, I couldn't get the camera in detail (ie. the text on the camera's len was clear but the text behind it was blurred).

Are the D50 and D70 exactly the same under general use and with the same lens?

[gstark]

Well I tried the D50 and got mixed reaction. When I tried taking a picture of a camera nearby, I couldn't get the camera in detail (ie. the text on the camera's len was clear but the text behind it was blurred).

Might one ask about how much photographic experience you have?

Depending upon the settings on the camera taking the photo, this is probably the exact sort of thing I would expect, due to the depth of field characteristics of the taking lens and the settings in place at the time of making the exposure.

Certainly, and without - knowing more about the taking conditions, I would probably say this is expected behaviour, and not anything that one should be concerned about.

Are the D50 and D70 exactly the same under general use and with the same lens?

While I've not hyet had a chance to have a play with a D50, the specs tell me that in general use the cameras would exhibit very similar characteristics, and certainly, with the same lens, you should expect very similar images to be the outcome.

[nito]

Well I tried the D50 and got mixed reaction. When I tried taking a picture of a camera nearby, I couldn't get the camera in detail (ie. the text on the camera's len was clear but the text behind it was blurred).

Are the D50 and D70 exactly the same under general use and with the same lens?

Ummm, I'm no expert, but it could be due to the camera Aperture settings and where your focus point was.

[informer]

Well I tried the D50 and got mixed reaction. When I tried taking a picture of a camera nearby, I couldn't get the camera in detail (ie. the text on the camera's len was clear but the text behind it was blurred).

Might one ask about how much photographic experience you have?

Depending upon the settings on the camera taking the photo, this is probably the exact sort of thing I would expect, due to the depth of field characteristics of the taking lens and the settings in place at the time of making the exposure.

Certainly, and without - knowing more about the taking conditions, I would probably say this is expected behaviour, and not anything that one should be concerned about.

Are the D50 and D70 exactly the same under general use and with the same lens?

While I've not hyet had a chance to have a play with a D50, the specs tell me that in general use the cameras would exhibit very similar characteristics, and certainly, with the same lens, you should expect very similar images to be the outcome.

Well, this will be my first time using a DSLR camera, so I set everything to default and to auto basically. I know I won't be doing that normally but I needed to know what it can do out of the box (I tested all the cameras this way).

I believe its my own fault for not being able to understand the best setting at that time. The lens was the one that came with the kit (ED 18～55mm F3.5-5G).

I wish I could upload a couple of images that I took using my own SD card here but there's no option for that.

[informer]

OK lets see if this works :

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/attachment.php?id=29629

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/attachment.php?id=29630

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/attachment.php?id=29631

Couldn't get the IMG tag to work, so did a link instead.

Pictures were all taken at the largest size and fine quality, and were cropped.

[gstark]

Well, this will be my first time using a DSLR camera, so I set everything to default and to auto basically. I know I won't be doing that normally but I needed to know what it can do out of the box (I tested all the cameras this way).

Ok ... the default autofocus setting is for closest-focus - which means it'll focus on whatever the camera believes is closest to it; in this case, the nose of the lens, and as I said, this would be the expected behaviour.

I believe its my own fault for not being able to understand the best setting at that time. The lens was the one that came with the kit (ED 18～55mm F3.5-5G).

"Fault" is not a part of the equation here; you're playing with some very sophisticated hardware, and this is your first time with it. You probably know more about it than the hapless so0called salesperson that's trying to sell you the thing.

I wish I could upload a couple of images that I took using my own SD card here but there's no option for that.

What difficulty are you having? Do you have the images on your PC at home? If so, it's simply a matter of uploading them to your online hosting facility (search for Pixspot) and then follow the instructions for embedding images that you'll find here.

[informer]

Thanks for that. Actually I signed up at a free web hosting site to upload some images, but the link you gave me seems to be much better.

[gstark]

Thanks for that. Actually I signed up at a free web hosting site to upload some images, but the link you gave me seems to be much better.

It should be; it's run by one of our members, especially for the rest of our community.

Enjoy.

[informer]

Thanks once again.

I'm very happy with the responses that I've been getting on this forum (I couldn't get anything from the other forums).

Maybe I should actually become a D70 user instead

[JED]

Hi Informer,

I've had my D50 for about a week and I'm very happy with it. It is my first dslr so I'm still at the bottom of the learning curve with it.

Have a look at this thread for some images I've taken so far.

http://www.d70users.net/viewtopic.php?t=7017&highlight=

If you have any specific questions about the D50, I'd be happy to try and answer them for you.

Cheers, John D

[informer]

Hi JED,

Thanks, I saw some of your photos and they look great (I love HSVs). I agree about the D50, it is a very easy camera to get started with as I'm not a pro either.

I'm currently deciding on the lenses to buy with the camera.

There are 2 D50 kits available :

Kit 1 - AF-S DX ED 18～55mm F3.5-5G

Kit 2 - AF-S DX ED 18～55mm F3.5-5G
AF-S DX ED 55～200mm F4-5.6G

There is about a $300 difference between kit 1 and 2, and a $200 difference between the base model D50 and kit 1 (so $500 between the D50 and kit 2).

After seeing your pictures using the 18-55, I thought they looked pretty good but if you had to buy a D50 all over again would you recommend the kits or buy separate lenses? I've heard some good things about the 18-70, which is about $490.

I just need something to get me started as well as cover my road trip. I'll be taking pictures of roads, cars, any animals if I'm lucky, any dead animals if I'm not lucky, more roads as well as trees, coasts and the typical landscapes (will try some panoramic shots if I can!). We're camping too so probably some night shots there as well though that's not so important.

Anyway, thanks for your help.

[gstark]

I've heard some good things about the 18-70, which is about $490.

And if you check our for sale section, there's one there for $300, and a 70-300G for about $100 as well. Pretty much an ideal starter kit.

[informer]

I wish I could, but I'm in Japan.

[gstark]

I wish I could, but I'm in Japan.

That detail needs to be added to your profile.

[informer]

Done. But I did mention this in my very first post

Good news people, I'm getting the D50 with the kit set tomorrow - HIPHOP HOORAY!

[smt]

Hi informer,

It's a good thing you're doing some research before buying a camera. Of course there's no such camera that's good at everything (if price is a factor) so you have to choose a camera that is good at what you're going to do the most.

The differences between EOS 350D and D70 when compared to image quality are quite minimal. I have a D70 and two of my friends have 350D and I've done some semi-scientific comparisons between them. 350D has a slight edge at ISO 1600 when it comes to noise, but D70 has really, really good noise characteristics too. Canons also do more software noise removal inside the camera at the cost of blurring the image slightly. 98% of the time I don't do any noise removal when shooting with high ISO because I actually like the look of the uniform and slight noise D70 has. 350D has pretty similar noise, i.e. uniform and easy to remove in software.

So, 350D's image sensor is slightly better than D70's, there's no arguing about it. However, the differences only show up when you flip two 100% crop images back and forth and try to find out differences. After you've printed the image or scaled it down suitable for viewing on the web, there's simply no way of finding any quality differences between them.

350D's image sensor is smaller than D70's, causing it a 1.6 crop factor while D70 has 1.5. This means that a 18mm lens in a D70 is like a 27mm lens in a 35mm film camera, while in 350D it corresponds to 28.8mm lens in 35mm. This, too, is pretty minimal difference, but it nevertheless means D70 performs slightly better in wide-angle shots while 350D gives you slightly more magnification with teles. I'm a wide-angle fan and don't care teles at all, and if I just could afford a digital camera with 1.0 crop factor I'd switch right away.

OK, so much for the differences in image quality. The real difference between 350D and D70 is in handling. D70 has two dials that can be used to simultaneously change, say, aperture and shutter speed. 350D has only one, and to change, say, aperture, you have to press a button while rotating the dial.

When you set whitebalance, ISO or metering mode in 350D, the main LCD is turned on and you see the new setting value there. This is described better here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos350d/page8.asp The friend of mine does quite a lot of night shooting and hates to have to set settings using the main LCD, because after looking at it at night, you're blind for awhile waiting for your eyes to adapt to the darkness again, even when the LCD is set to minimum brightness. In D70 you can set everything (except AF) using the small LCD on top of the camera, and it has a perfect, quite dim backlight for night photography. Also, the small LCD is at the back in 350D, which is a really bad place for it, but there has been no choice because 350D is simply so small that there's no room for the LCD at the top.

I could babble endlessly of how superior D70's handling is compared to 350D, but I think this post is already getting too long. But please, go on and test the cameras in a good camera shop and pay some attention to the usability because it really matters a lot. There are also things you can't test in camera shops, like the fact that D70's battery lasts about twice as long as 350D's. Pay also attention to the way you hold the camera; don't hold it like you'd hold a small point-and-shoot camera. Remember to hold under the lens with your left hand and suddenly you realize that it's not only a bad thing that D70 is heavier, the weight of it makes it easier to keep it steady and helps when shooting in low light with slower shutter speeds.

What comes to D70's moire problem, it's true that under some circumstances there's visible color moire when shooting JPEG. I never see any moire as I use a good RAW converter (that will automatically remove the moire) and don't usually shoot JPEGs. However, there's a reason why Nikon engineers made this tradeoff and used a lighter antialias filter: sharpness. D70 gives you tremendous sharpness and retains lots of tiny details in landscapes at the cost of having some rare moire in JPEGs. This is definitely the way I'd have done it too, as I happen to like sharp images. (There are no perfect AA filters that would cut out everything above Nyquist's frequency while retaining everything under it. That's why there is always a tradeoff between moire and sharpness in every digital camera in this world.)

I hope you'll find the camera that suits you best. The choice between D70 and 350D is quite hard indeed, and Canon is way better in marketing products for consumers; their advertisements create powerful mental impressions about the endless creativity and possibilities with their equipment. Canon definitely is a safe bet, but so is Nikon. Nikon even released a new firmware for D70 that gave us the new software features from D70s. Compare this to Canon where they deliberately disabled many of the features in 300D's firmware, and as far as I know, haven't released a firmware version without the restrictions.

Phew, luckily the choice between 10D and D70 wasn't hard at all when I bought mine!

S

[informer]

Hi S, thanks for the advice.

But now I have a new problem. The shop that I was intending to buy the D50 kit from is also selling the D70 kit (with the ED18-70mm) at around the same price as the D50 kit (ED18-55mm).

Now I'm back to square one again!

[smt]

I guess you've already tried them both in your hands? If D70 feels way too big, i.e. if you can't get a good grip of it (but remember to hold it properly under the lens) then it might be wise to consider D50 as it's smaller. But if you like the feel of D70, definitely go for it.

S

[gstark]

Hi S, thanks for the advice.

But now I have a new problem. The shop that I was intending to buy the D50 kit from is also selling the D70 kit (with the ED18-70mm) at around the same price as the D50 kit (ED18-55mm).

Now I'm back to square one again!

That's a no-brainer.

The glass in the D70 kit eats the glass in the D50 kit; just have a play with each of those lenses and you'll see the difference.

Get the D70 kit!

[birddog114]

Hi S, thanks for the advice.

But now I have a new problem. The shop that I was intending to buy the D50 kit from is also selling the D70 kit (with the ED18-70mm) at around the same price as the D50 kit (ED18-55mm).

Now I'm back to square one again!

Did members from this board tell you tou go with the D70 + 18-70Dx kit lens?

[JED]

The d70 kit would definitely be the preferable choice if you can get it for similar price to d50 kit.

I like the more compact size of the d50, it handles very comfortably for me and I'm very happy with the results so far.

However, I would have got the d70 had the $$$ been the same.

Cheers, John D

[informer]

JED,

What would you take the D70 even though it has a slower USB connection and is bigger/heavier?

The D70 kit has better lenses for sure, though the D50 is probably the better fitting camera for me right now. I don't think I will buy the D70 kit, keep the lenses and sell it to get the D50. Do people even do that?

I'm going to take a look at both cameras today again.

[gstark]

JED,

What would you take the D70 even though it has a slower USB connection and is bigger/heavier?

Bigger and heavier is good. I have big hands, and many cameras are simply too small for me to comfortably use.

The USB connection is a non-issue. You're better off forgetting about it (as far as image transfers are concerned) and simply using a card reader.

The D70 kit has better lenses for sure, though the D50 is probably the better fitting camera for me right now. I don't think I will buy the D70 kit, keep the lenses and sell it to get the D50. Do people even do that?

I'm going to take a look at both cameras today again.

The correct answer for you is "whichever camera you feel fits you better". It's that simple.

The D70 kit that you've mentioned here represents better value than the D50 kit because the camera is more highly featured, and the lens is a better quality one, both in terms of optical quality as well as build quality.

That said, if you prefer the feel of the D50, then the value for money part of the equation becomes somewhat moot.

As a final observation, you should bear in mind that the heart of a DSLR system is not the camera body, but the glass, and you should always be striving to have the best glass that you can. That would by my motivation towards buying the D70 kit in this instance, rather than the body in question.

[Greg B]

No offense informer, but coming to a forum called D70users, asking about canons etc, then being a bit surprised that someone suggested a D70 over a D50, seems a bit odd.

Nevertheless, you have received some excellent feedback. And not surprisingly, that feedback favours ..... the D70.

Good luck with your purchase and your photography

[informer]

Hi Greg B,

I was surprised that JED would still go for the D70 over the D50 despite being fairly satisfied with it.

I would think that the 2 cameras would be very similar, differentiating only on size and certain features which would only affect the professionals. As I'm not a pro, I would be happy with either camera.

I currently have this mindset, if I get the D70 kit set, then I'm getting a good camera with a great pair of lenses. However, it is already 2 models "old", and, pretty soon this time next year it'll probably be 3-4 models back. Plus, I feel that I will have to do a lot of tinkering to get each scene just right.
The D50 on the other hand is newer, and is geared towards people who don't really want to download their images and edit them using photoshop.

Plus, should I gain enough experience to buy another dSLR, I can still pass the D50 to my younger siblings or parents and they will have no problems using it.
Cameras are getting smaller and lighter, probably to make way for newer technology that will once again pack more weight on the cameras. I think the best is still to come (maybe 8 megapixel Nikkons?).

I've been reading local reviews of the D50 vs D70s vs Rebel and the D50 really does look more vibrant than the D70s (Rebel was pretty good but I didn't like the plastic body even though it was light, the Canon IXY 700 felt better).

[WadeM]

D70 kit, no questions. Better in every way!

--Wade

[birddog114]

I would think that the 2 cameras would be very similar, differentiating only on size and certain features which would only affect the professionals. As I'm not a pro, I would be happy with either camera.).

Similar look but heaps of features and benefits and it's used by all Pro, Non-pro, amateur, beginner. The Pros use P&S as well or mobile phone camera with 2MP as the new Sony mobile phone.

I currently have this mindset, if I get the D70 kit set, then I'm getting a good camera with a great pair of lenses. However, it is already 2 models "old", and, pretty soon this time next year it'll probably be 3-4 models back. Plus, I feel that I will have to do a lot of tinkering to get each scene just right.

That's the circle of life, anything you buy today, tomorrow wil have the difference, the age and development of digital is never stop at one spot.

The D50 on the other hand is newer, and is geared towards people who don't really want to download their images and edit them using photoshop.

P&S users do want their photos to be PPing.

Plus, should I gain enough experience to buy another dSLR, I can still pass the D50 to my younger siblings or parents and they will have no problems using it.

If you happen to hand them a new D2x, they will find the way to use it, the kids today are more smarter than us.

Cameras are getting smaller and lighter, probably to make way for newer technology that will once again pack more weight on the cameras. I think the best is still to come (maybe 8 megapixel Nikkons?).

Not true! depend on what are you looking for, some camera models are bigger and heavier, only mobile phone camera and P&S.
Nikon won't have anything with 8MP on DSLR, hang on to it and you'll see the best of their range will be coming out, but then: your questions and research will restart at point 0.

I've been reading local reviews of the D50 vs D70s vs Rebel and the D50 really does look more vibrant than the D70s (Rebel was pretty good but I didn't like the plastic body even though it was light, the Canon IXY 700 felt better

They're with all kind of plastic shell, even with the D70 or D50, only the Pro's body is made from difference materials. The D50 is aiming for difference market segment against the D70s, like apple to orange.

[gstark]

I think the best is still to come (maybe 8 megapixel Nikkons?).

While you're correct in saying that the best is yet to come, I'd strongly suggest that you don't hold your breath waiting for an 8MP Nikon DSLR.

First of all, the real differences between a 6MP and 8MP DSLR are negligible; it's marketing bullshit more than anything else.

Second, the only people making a sensor of that size are Canon. Bloody good sensor it is too, but it's a different physical size from the Nikon one, and I really don't see Nikon buying the Canon sensor, nor do I see Canon asking Nikon to buy them.

Note also that there are no DSLR sized 10MP sensors; the next size up is the 12MP sensor that's in the D2x. Nikon make it; they've spent a lot of $$$ developing it, and they need to recover those development costs, and lower the unit costs by increasing its production and deployment.

Whilstever it remains in the exclusive domain of the D2x, those last two goals will remain unattainable. That's good news for those of us waiting for the next models to be announced ...

[Sheetshooter]

Seeing as you are all up and at it I shall join the dawn patrol also .....

Another issue of which to remain mindful is that the only means of increasing the pixel count in the given area chip is to increase pixel pitch/decrease pixel size.

For quality imaging the pixel size is already pushing the boundaries and an increase in pixel frequency will have attached to it another raft of deleterious side-issues.

More than ever before, today's cameras - especially DSLRs - are made to a given output size and a price-point. The output size is accommodating to the needs of the vast bulk of potential users and the price-point is obviously well researched as evidenced by simple virtue of the fact that folk who traditionally bought on the second-hand market for film cameras are now making discretionary purchases of NEW kit.

If you need something capable of larger images without loss of quality then there are other options available — at a price!

I notice Phase-One have announced a 39 mega-pixel MF back for release before Christmas - got a lazy 50 Grand to spare on a back? Oh, and BYOC (Bring Your Own Camera!)

[gstark]

For quality imaging the pixel size is already pushing the boundaries and an increase in pixel frequency will have attached to it another raft of deleterious side-issues.

Noise being one of the more serious of these ...

I notice Phase-One have announced a 39 mega-pixel MF back for release before Christmas - got a lazy 50 Grand to spare on a back? Oh, and BYOC (Bring Your Own Camera!)

Just what I need for the old ETRs.

Better ... I'll take a D2x and spend 6 months travelling in EU with the change.

[Sheetshooter]

Only SIX months? You'll be living high on the hog on that much!!

[gstark]

Only SIX months? You'll be living high on the hog on that much!!

Guilty as charged.

[JED]

Hi Greg B,

I was surprised that JED would still go for the D70 over the D50 despite being fairly satisfied with it.

I would think that the 2 cameras would be very similar, differentiating only on size and certain features which would only affect the professionals. As I'm not a pro, I would be happy with either camera.

Hi Informer, no need to be surprised. Like all purchases, it all comes down to the $$$ and value for money.

For my use, the extra features of the d70 didn't warrant the extra $400. My choice for those $$$ is to put towards other parts of my outfit. If I could have got a d70 for the same dollars, yes I would have got it, mainly for the longer reach lens that comes with it, not the extra body features.

USB connection is not an issue, use a card reader.

I've posted my first couple of images for review and have received very positive comments (thanks guys). I think the d50 is great, lets me concentrate on getting the shot.

In the end it's what works best for you. Have fun deciding.

Cheers, John D

[informer]

OK I bought a camera...


and its a...


Nikkon!

[gstark]

OK I bought a camera...


and its a...


Nikkon!

I'd be willing to bet that it's not, actually.

But coingratulations, anyhow.

50 or 70 ?

[birddog114]

OK I bought a camera...


and its a...


Nikkon!

Nikkon is difference with NIKON

http://www.nikonexhausts.co.uk/twostroke.htm

And here's NIKON:

http://www.nikon.com

[informer]

I think I spelt it wrong!

Well I went to Akihabara to look for the shop that was selling the Nikon DSLRs and after walking and walking and walking, I couldn't find the damn shop!! I swear I had it in memory but this shop was not close to the station but quite far out.

So I found another well hidden shop that had the camera kit set that I wanted and hmm, they wouldn't let me open it up and take a look at it! Doh.

Went to draw some money out, and I asked if I could open the box and check it. The guy said no, no checking, no changing, no whatever, just pay us the money and take it home.

Well I've done my research so whatever questions that I may have would have been in vain with this guy. Nevertheless, the camera was about $300 cheaper than the electrical store near my house and $200 cheaper than the other stores in Akihabara, so I bought it.

It was brand new, and if there was any problems I'd have to send it to Nikon and not to the store (no problem, after all I am living in Japan).

If this is any clue as to what I've bought, the camera kit set is just one box. Felt a little heavy after walking around a bit though its not as bad as carrying my 5kg notebook on my back to work every day.



Anyway....charging....charging....

[informer]

OK I bought a camera...


and its a...


Nikkon!

Nikkon is difference with NIKON

http://www.nikonexhausts.co.uk/twostroke.htm

And here's NIKON:

http://www.nikon.com

Actually I typed this :

http://www.nikkon.com/

And it lead me to some geocities type homepage of Nikon products.

[birddog114]

Informer,
Have you stopped by the small sushi restaurant as soon as you get out the train station heading to Akihabara? Or have lunch with Udong noodle just little bit far on that lane?
I'll fly back there soon after I finished all my duties here for 1/2 month.

[informer]

OK I bought a camera...


and its a...


Nikkon!

Nikkon is difference with NIKON

http://www.nikonexhausts.co.uk/twostroke.htm

And here's NIKON:

http://www.nikon.com

Actually I typed this :

http://www.nikkon.com/

It led me to a homepage for Nikon products.

EDITED : for the gawd awful English (living here too long can make the brain go blur).