Picture of the Week 26 July 2005

[sirhc55]

An interesting point in all of these discussions is the personal interpretation we place on a photograph.

Technically speaking Leigh has produced a photo that many people would look at and say ”what!” - But, we all have the choice to like or dislike a photo because we are not all made in the same mould!

As I have stated previously, this photo by Leigh is totally in the tradition of Bresson and if entered in the comp would have been one that could justifiably be called the decisive moment - and probably the only one

[glamy]

Well done Leigh,
I am also on the "what?" side although sitting on the fence because of the atmosphere coming out of the picture. It's a bit like the Archibald Prize, it is sometimes hard to understand. I know I like a Monet but cannot understand a Picasso...
Cheers,
Gerard

[leek]

As I have stated previously, this photo by Leigh is totally in the tradition of Bresson and if entered in the comp would have been one that could justifiably be called the decisive moment - and probably the only one

While I agree that Leigh's photo has MUCH more in common with HCB's work than most entries in the competition, I don't think that HCB would have published this image... He was very particular in getting the right composition and feel from his photos... He may have taken this one, but would not have printed it... JMHO...

[jethro]

the so called loop has nothing to do with the admin or mod side of the fence in this forum. not withstanding. many images are critiqued, some have been applauded some have beeen bagged. a constructive critique HERE on this forum has a lot to be desired in a professional manner. As i have stated before ART is ART photography is photography. bullshit is bullshit. To my way of thinking and to quite a few people with whom i hold in high regard as pro photographers on this forum with whom i have had various discussions regarding these issues, feel the same. POTW i feel is a wank! constructive critisism is more to the tune of a Nikon based forum without the licking and bullshit attached. maybe this is a wake up call maybe most here might ridicule myself for my own opinions. I dont care! i joined this forum for genuine chat not the bullshit attached. please dont take me as a nark, everyone is entitled to an opinion and believe it or not the image critique here makes it quite clear if your thin skinned dont post. LONG LIVE THE LOOP.and if you dont know what a criptic post is bad luck!

jethro

[gstark]

Jethro,

Thank you for clarifying your earlier post. I appreciate that.

Please let me address a couple of your points ...

the so called loop has nothing to do with the admin or mod side of the fence in this forum. not withstanding. many images are critiqued, some have been applauded some have beeen bagged.

But isn't this always going to be the case? Some people will love things that others dislike intensely. I'm struggling to understand your point.

a constructive critique HERE on this forum has a lot to be desired in a professional manner.

Many here are simply not capable of offerring a professional quality critique, but I have no problems with that concept. The primary issue is that it is the image, and not the person, being critiqued, and as long as that basic tenet is followed, then there will be no major issues.

As i have stated before ART is ART photography is photography. bullshit is bullshit.

But in each case, this can only be held to be so in the eye of the beholder. One man's ceiling is another man's floor.

That is precisely why we permit vigorous discussion about the images. Again, I'm struggling to understand your point.

To my way of thinking and to quite a few people with whom i hold in high regard as pro photographers on this forum with whom i have had various discussions regarding these issues, feel the same. POTW i feel is a wank!

While you're certainly entitled to your opinion, I suspect that most here would disagree. Perhaps you fail to understand the premise underlying how we choose PotW? As greg and Glen pointed out, there are no criteria set out at all. It's as simple as an image that takes the fancy of the mod whose turn it is thiat week. No justification for the selection is needed nor sought.

Might I also suggest that if you're taking things so seriously, you should perhaps take the opportunity to review your attitiude; the PotW is essentially a fun thing, as you can tell by the rules for selection.

constructive critisism is more to the tune of a Nikon based forum without the licking and bullshit attached.

I think that the members here are well able to determine what is or isn't appropriate here. One year on, I think they have exercised their judgement quite well.

maybe this is a wake up call maybe most here might ridicule myself for my own opinions. I dont care! i joined this forum for genuine chat not the bullshit attached.

So, ignore the threads that you consider to be bullshit. Is that such a difficult taks?

please dont take me as a nark, everyone is entitled to an opinion and believe it or not the image critique here makes it quite clear if your thin skinned dont post.

Er, yes. Right from day one, in fact, the description of the critique section has said exactly this. What's the problem?

LONG LIVE THE LOOP.and if you dont know what a criptic post is bad luck!

Well, I'm still none the wiser as to what the loop you're referring to is

[Glen]

LONG LIVE THE LOOP.and if you dont know what a criptic post is bad luck!



Like Gary, I am none the wiser from your post or last sentence of your point. Why not ignore posts which dont appeal?


On a more personal note I have a feeling I will never learn what a criptic post is. I looked up criptic both on http://www.dictionary.com and googled it but to no avail. Could you give me a clue? Is it a photographic term? (You can tell I am not a professional, can't you?) Or maybe only those in the loop know? I am obviously out of the loop. I feel like the dopiest person on the board sometimes.

[radar]

I feel like the dopiest person on the board sometimes.

Hey Glen, get in line!

Radar

[marcus]

C'mon Glen,

I know you and lots of others are p@##$% off with Jethros post, but a sarcastic verse about a spelling error is maybe stooping to the level that you are upset about?.........just a thought.

Perhaps these "more personal notes" should be left to a PM?

[phillipb]

i joined this forum for genuine chat not the bullshit attached.
jethro

One of my favourite sayings (ask my kids) is "You catch more flies with honey then you do with shit"
IMHO it's better to say "Nice photo but you may have improved it if...."
Rather then "Lousy photo, you should have..." If this is considered bullshit, then so be it, but I rather make friends then enemies.

[jethro]

phillip
im not trying to make enemies just educate people on ethics!

[phillipb]

phillip
im not trying to make enemies just educate people on ethics!

In the immortal words of a famous pollie, Please explain.

[jethro]

phillip if you dont get it i cant explain. get in the loop!

[Greg B]

Perhaps these "more personal notes" should be left to a PM?

Such as, for example, suggesting (in fact, declaring as proven) that my choice for PotW had to do with something other than the photograph?

If such a statement carried any sense of credibility or substance, it could be deemed offensive.

[Nnnnsic]

the so called loop has nothing to do with the admin or mod side of the fence in this forum. not withstanding.

So... what does the loop have to do with then? As an admin and mod, I feel that I should probably know lest I don't think this loop is suitable for the audiences that frequent the board... is there even a loop here?

I tied my shoe laces this morning. Is the loop there?
I'm working on some music remixing at the moment... I know there's a few hundred or so loops there... are any of them the ones to which you refer?

many images are critiqued, some have been applauded some have beeen bagged.

Sounds like the very definition of critiquing to me.

a constructive critique HERE on this forum has a lot to be desired in a professional manner.

I wasn't aware that everyone HAD to be professional.
In fact, at one point I was convinced that people could be personal and say what they want... I mean, yes, professionalism is great and all, but a bit of tact might be a bit better, especially if you don't really care much about professionalism but don't want to show that no, you're really not that much of a jerk (hence the introduction of tact).

As i have stated before ART is ART photography is photography. bullshit is bullshit.

I guess like people liking works and not liking works, this too is an opinion... one to which you're completely welcome to have.

That said, art can be photography and bullshit (I'm not kidding about the bullshit being art. "Piss Christ" is a great example of how bodily excretions can be considered art), photography can be art and bullshit (you may well think that this week's PotW is indeed bullshit, to which to you, it would be the case), and bullshit can certainly have art and photography seemlessly intertwined throughout it's messy walls.

That said, everything is everything and can certainly be redefined through an infinite number of possibilities. You claim that "ART is ART" or "photography is photography" or even "bullshit is bullshit" is inherently just another opinion because all of them are still connected and thus they can all be considered the same.

Art is very often bullshit, but often art is art and beautiful, sometimes when art is photographic.

To my way of thinking and to quite a few people with whom i hold in high regard as pro photographers on this forum with whom i have had various discussions regarding these issues, feel the same.

That's nice. They're completely welcome to have those opinions, just as you are.

POTW i feel is a wank!

Wow. You're gonna love this then.

Some odd weeks ago when you had posted this amazing picture of, I think it was someone throwing a fishing line off a rod or something similar, we of the moderator group were having our weekly chat about whose choice it was and it was mine and I was like "hmm... Jethro might be the next PotW." You weren't only because during the course of the week I found something else I preferred for the Picture of the Week, but that said, most of us were impressed with the shot.

That said, had I originally chose your image, I wonder if the statement you just made would have even been uttered from your fingers' lips.

constructive critisism is more to the tune of a Nikon based forum without the licking and bullshit attached.

"A Nikon based forum without the licking and bullshit attached"

Right, so... even though the bulk of what was said there doesn't actually make sense, I'm going to assume the "licking" translates to "arse licking" and the "bullshit" is "things that you don't agree with".

Okie dokie.

First, this was a Nikon based forum... was being the operative word.
This is a photographic-based forum. We talk about cameras, film, digitals, computers, printing, scanners, news, music, sports, getting to know people, food, drinks... a whole variety of things.

Second, "arse licking" is all well and good, but I don't think that complimenting someone is "arse licking" but rather "being nice to them".

And third, I'd love to know what your definition of "bullshit" is because, unless you can give me an idea, I'm afraid I can't help to understand your perspective.

maybe this is a wake up call maybe most here might ridicule myself for my own opinions.

I don't think we're ridiculing you...

I think we're just asking for some logic in your opinions.

You ask for some element of professionalism, right?
In yours post, you've become vulgar, you haven't explained yourself and yet you're the one claiming that there's a lacking of professionalism here in the community?

Come on...

I dont care! i joined this forum for genuine chat not the bullshit attached. please dont take me as a nark, everyone is entitled to an opinion and believe it or not the image critique here makes it quite clear if your thin skinned dont post.

Absolutely right. It does.

So... why don't you just message one of the mods or admins if you have a problem with the PotW selection process instead of critiquing the process in one of the PotW threads?

LONG LIVE THE LOOP.

Had it been an infinite loop, I'd agree with that, except for that I don't even think you know what the "loop" is in this case because no one else here can certainly identify one.

and if you dont know what a criptic post is bad luck!

I'm not entirely sure what a criptic post is.

I know what a "cryptic" post is... but... I'm struggling to break down "criptic".

I know that from Googling "criptic," I'm seeing a few Australians spell "cryptic" in said manner, but that's just poor spelling.

Surely, some level of professionalism might entail you to spell "cryptic" with the "y" it surely deserves.

Regardless, I've come to the realisation in logic that CRIPTIC is actually an anagram:

Creating Really Interesting Posts That Intrigue Chatters

[Glen]

Marcus, read the post. It says if you don't understand, bad luck. Jethro has previously used words I am unfamiliar with, it is not as if I can be familiar with the local vernacular of everyone on an international forum. I take Jethro as a man of his word, not as if there was a hidden message.

Jethro is entitled to his opinion, but in this case I would not want others to think the POW is somehow rigged or influenced in anyway, that would be denigrating the members who have received it. I beleive that is grossly unfair to the recipients who clearly got it on their own merits.

[phillipb]

Well, I like crossword puzzles, so now I'm trying to decode the clues.
Let me see, some of the words used were LOOP, ETHICS, Hmmm I wonder what this could mean?

[jethro]

greg i have never stated that this is rigged. im trying to lift this forum to another level less the crap. sure its nice to rabble. every pic i have posted of my own i would not have posted if it did not warrant critique. im sorry if i have offended the masses but i do believe for the up and coming members and newbies to this forum HOW THE HELL ARE THESE GUYS GOING TO LEARN WITH DILLY DALLY BULLSHIT that wont encourage their own hidden talents. For gods sake didnt you guys learn from someone. This is a new medium that most of the general public dont have access to. THESE GUYS DOWANT TO LEARN stop the CRAP!

[leek]

Can someone please lock this thread - I'm confused...

Well done Leigh - a very thought provoking image... (judging by the amount of posts on this thread...)

[Nnnnsic]

Leek, I'm not entirely sure how this picture provoked such a storm of words.

It's a picture of a girl on a bus.

A blurry one, at that.

[Matt. K]

Hi Jethro
I've been following this post and trying to work out what it is that you perceive as being dissapointing about the POW. NNNNsic is a trained artist and the son of the site administrater. This is his first POW in the 12 months that the forum has been running. He is qualified, academically, to produce and comment on photography/art. His image is unique in many ways and if he were to make a very large print and hang it in a gallery it would easily hold its own in any measured and educated judgement. Greg. B made an excellent choice in choosing it in my opinion. If you disagree, and you may not be the only forum member to do so, then we all respect your right to disagree and we are all interested in your point of view and reasoning. This is how we all...young and old, beginners and professionals, continue to grow and learn. However, if you become aggresive and abusive because you don't agree with the judgement of another, then that demonstrates a lack of maturity or an unwillingness to accomodate the viewpoint of others who have their own sense of taste developed through their own life experiences. We all have differing tastes and we all, hopefully, can see that this is a good and powerful thing. Please don't shut yourself off from the viewpoint of others, as this will diminish your intellectual growth in the long term. It is a destructive reaction. Allow yourself to disagree and make your feelings known in the best way you can without resorting to aggressive terminology. Some will agree with your point of view and others will not. That's OK because there are no winners and no losers. We are all learners. Respect those with whom you disagree with and they will respect you in turn. Then we learn something from each other.

[leek]

Leek, I'm not entirely sure how this picture provoked such a storm of words.

It's a picture of a girl on a bus.

A blurry one, at that.

How do you know it was a girl???

P.S. It's growing on me...

[marcus]

Glen, I was implying that maybe the words that followed "on a personal note" should be sent in a PM, nothing more.

Greg, I'm not quite sure how my post to Glen in relation to a PM rather than the flaming that's going on here pricked your ears? I know through reading this thread that you have felt somewhat personally attacked for your choice but I did not attack you. I think there are alot of hot headed posts happening here that would be better left to PM's.

I believe there are people here totally losing it who should be staying cool.
There are people here who have thrown their beliefs and morals they have preached on this site out the window because of ruffled feathers.

[Nnnnsic]

P.S. It's growing on me...

The girl or the picture?!

If it's the girl, you might want to seek medical attention or some scientific group immediately.

In fact, you might need to get her surgically removed.

[leek]

P.S. It's growing on me...

The girl or the picture?!

If it's the girl, you might want to seek medical attention or some scientific group immediately.

In fact, you might need to get her surgically removed.

I can't tell if the girl would grow on me or not...
However, the photo is growing on me...

If you hadn't made it plain that you took it (almost) by accident, then I would probably have a completely different opinion about it...

[Matt. K]

Nnnnsic
It has always been my dream to have to have a girl surgically removed.

[marcus]

Leek,

How do you know it was a girl???

Uhm...he saw her get off the bus??

[Glen]

Marcus, thanks for the explanation, I genuinely appreciate it. I meant with "on a personal note" more as 'with regards to me' rather than "a personal note to you". The reason I posted it publicly is so others could learn the same as I. If Leek had not explained that tit fa meant hat, I would still be wandering around wondering what it meant. That is the great thing about this board, I personally have learnt so much from so many, not all of it with regards to photography.

[leek]

Nnnnsic
It has always been my dream to have to have a girl surgically removed.

SNORT...

[leek]

If Leek had not explained that tit fa meant hat, I would still be wandering around wondering what it meant.

Oh and by the way - I think that it's commonly spelt titfer...

At least you'll probably get more reliable results searching for titfer on Google than tit fa

[Glen]

Leigh, congrats for getting the longest post following a POW. You must be an "artist" to create such reaction.




Thanks Leek, I learn again

[sirhc55]

I totally dislike the Mona Lisa

[Nnnnsic]

Leigh, congrats for getting the longest post following a POW. You must be an "artist" to create such reaction.

Would you believe me if I said that I'm going to wrap this entire thread in plastic and then challenge Christo to a duel?

[Matt. K]

Leigh
Is that the Count of Monte Christo? Or are you Gonna wrap your D70 in plastic and become an icon?

[marcus]

No probs Glen.....................I had no idea on the Tit fa either!

[Glen]

Someone just gave him$20m US to wrap Central Park, how bout I see if I can get A $10M for you?

[jethro]

leigh, i have never stated that your picture is unworthy of POTW. TRUE OR FALSE? your image is different and to a degree arty. this is not the issue, im sick of the suck up crap in between. lets get the story straight once and for all. This is a subject like it or lump it, that has has it knockers. TRUE OR FALSE? if you have a constructive qritique say it, you want to suck up to someone PM them. or post it as a genuine qritique.
STOP THE CRAP!

[Matt. K]

sirhc55
The Mona Lisa was a masterpiece in its time. Times change.

[rokkstar]

Ma mama always used ta say ta me:
"If you don't got nothin nice ta say, don't say nothin at all"

I'll be completely honest here and say that I'm not entirely sure what's going on in this thread. THe only reason I posted a reply saying I didnt like the image is because it was provoking so much discussion.

I like Mondrian - coloured squares on a white canvas, absolute genius. My friends think it's absolutely shit!

Not entirely sure this post has anything whatsoever to do with this thread!!!!!

[jethro]

neither did i rokstar but a statement had to be made

[leek]

leigh, i have never stated that your picture is unworthy of POTW. TRUE OR FALSE? your image is different and to a degree arty. this is not the issue, im sick of the suck up crap in between. lets get the story straight once and for all. This is a subject like it or lump it, that has has it knockers. TRUE OR FALSE? if you have a constructive qritique say it, you want to suck up to someone PM them. or post it as a genuine qritique.
STOP THE CRAP!

Sorry Jethro, but I'm having a great deal of difficulty understanding your point(s)...

You're sick of the suck up crap in between.
Does that relate to the fact that we try to be nice to each other here???

This is a subject like it or lump it, that has has it knockers. TRUE OR FALSE?
Is this about breasts? I'm confused...

If you have a constructive qritique say it, you want to suck up to someone PM them. or post it as a genuine qritique.
STOP THE CRAP!
Are you saying that we should be cruel to be kind...

Seriously jethro... If you want to be understood here, it might be an idea to spend a little more time on your messages / punctuation / spelling / grammar / attitude... (not much, just a few minutes)

Many of your messages come across as provocative / insulting / ill considered... You might want to think twice before posting your next message...

[Matt. K]

rokkstar
Your friends were half right!

[jethro]

thanks leek ill take that as constructive critisism!

[Nnnnsic]

I'm already getting sick of this argument.

At one point I was convinced that this thread was for a PotW, but it seems to be combining a good and healthy mix of discussion on art and photography, as well as people opinions... and I liked it.

Until this whole issue came into frame.

Out of curiosity Jethro, if you haven't liked the way we select PotW's or have thought otherwise of our methods, why have you waited this long to tell us?

leigh, i have never stated that your picture is unworthy of POTW. TRUE OR FALSE?

Seeing as I don't believe you have any proper Boolean logic there Jethro, I'm going to have to say "OR".

I never suggested or implied that you thought my picture was unworthy of PotW.

More to the point, I don't care.

If you don't like my image, great! If you do, great! It's an opinion, and I welcome you or anyone else to have one.

your image is different and to a degree arty.

Everyone's image is different. And since when is being arty implied as a bad thing?

this is not the issue, im sick of the suck up crap in between.

What suck up crap?!

lets get the story straight once and for all. This is a subject like it or lump it, that has has it knockers. TRUE OR FALSE? if you have a constructive qritique say it, you want to suck up to someone PM them. or post it as a genuine qritique.

What do you define as a "genuine critique"?
A compliment or saying that someone likes it is a "genuine critique," no matter how you try to wrap it up or redefine it.
It may not be overtly explanatory, but neither is saying "im sick of the suck up crap" and then not explaning or giving examples as to what you're actually complaining about.

STOP THE CRAP!

I don't think my doctor would want me to.

It might cause more problems than it's worth.

[jethro]

at the least now i know where you are coming from! thanks leigh

[leek]

Yay!!! only 8 more posts and we'll have a 100 - anyone else want to join in???

[marcus]

Well I'm still here so why not!

[Matt. K]

Leek
6?

[marcus]

Matt..................5

[Nnnnsic]

Christ, this is one interesting PotW thread.

Lol.

Wait until Dad get's home from his jam... there'll probably be a few more posts with Dad's opinion on all of this (which is completely welcome too).

And people, please, don't be alarmed or warned off by all of this commotion... it's still a Picture of the Week thread... you're supposed to talk about the picture (I'm not boosting my ego! No! Seriously! I'm not!)...

[leek]

Leek
6?

Yep... Including that one about me being Welsh... Don't think I've forgotten that - Even if I didn't understand it...

p.s. like the handgrips Leigh...