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by **big pix** on Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:14 am

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by **WadeM** on Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:06 pm

Personally I find all of those photos FAR to busy. They all seem more like happy snaps then art.

#2 would look better without hte balck roof.
#3 without the tress in the top/foreground, and perhaps a bit of a lower angle
#4 would prefer a tighter zoom
#5 more zoom needed again.

Cheers,
--Wade

by **famish** on Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:21 pm

Hi bp...

I lived in Holland Park for years - just around the corner from Notting Hill. Great part of London.

Anyway, I like the subject matter:

... I thought no.2 could do with a horizontal crop

... No. 3 is great! Love the water colour and the foliage.

... no. 4 - just doesn't do it for me. Dont know why. Something about the woman with the tiller.

... no. 5 is very busy, but I like it. Perhaps you could crop it at the bottom to align the rope post with the corner?

Fiona

by **leek** on Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:34 pm

Ah - there's nothing quite like the narrowboats on the UK canals... I still have a dream about taking a holiday on one - maybe when I retire...

Richard Branson did (and I believe still does) a lot of business from one of those boats in Little Venice... It was/is his personal office...

I'm all the better for seeing the photos, but I'd probably agree with some of the critique...

I like #2 the best, but also think you should crop the top off it...
I love the mirror in #5 (What the???)...

by **big pix** on Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:00 pm

WadeM wrote:Personally I find all of those photos FAR to busy. They all seem more like happy snaps then art.

........ considering that I am on holiday and being what the title of this post is, well now what more do I need to say.......

by **bloop** on Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:20 pm

big pix wrote:
WadeM wrote:Personally I find all of those photos FAR to busy. They all seem more like happy snaps then art.

........ considering that I am on holiday and being what the title of this post is, well now what more do I need to say.......

Looks like there are some conflicting views on the definition of this "Image Reviews and Critiques" forum... maybe the suggestion of having two forums (as per the other thread), i.e. Snapshot vs. Critique wasn't such a bad idea after all.

by **glamy** on Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:27 pm

Bloop,
I still think next time Big Pix takes a photo, he'll think of the comments and make an effort... Not that I do not like the photos, but I agree with some of the critiques.
Cheers,
Gerard

by **big pix** on Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:50 pm

glamy wrote:Bloop,
I still think next time Big Pix takes a photo, he'll think of the comments and make an effort... Not that I do not like the photos, but I agree with some of the critiques.
Cheers,
Gerard

...... I take photo's for my own pleasure, weather they be happy snaps of places that I have been to or a shot that could be loosely termed art. I do not need to make an effort for images that I produce, as this reminds me too much of a very long and busy working life, but if people read the heading of the post it states 'BUSY' and the shots are, they were shot to show the area, while on a walk. People should read headings and take images in before comment, or should one have to explain what one's images reflect, be it happy snaps or ART.....in future I will label my posts either 'happy snaps' or 'art'

by **glamy** on Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:06 pm

..... so to quote Gary "lets get over it" and get on to what we like to do...... taking Photo's, weather we share or ask for critique, on images that are posted, does it realy realy matter. yes it is nice to have positive feed back, but this will not always happen.
_________________

Cheers,
Gerard

by **leek** on Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:24 pm

As I tried to convey bp... your shots gave me some pleasure - a reminder of a past home... don't take the comments to heart... They were an echo of a previous thread that you may have missed due to your remote location...

by **big pix** on Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:42 pm

.... leek thanks....

glamy wrote:
..... so to quote Gary "lets get over it" and get on to what we like to do...... taking Photo's, weather we share or ask for critique, on images that are posted, does it realy realy matter. yes it is nice to have positive feed back, but this will not always happen.
_________________

Cheers,
Gerard

..... to take quotes out of context is not what this forum is about so lets keep things in perspective...... and not become like a lot of other forums on photography.....

by **famish** on Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:26 pm

I'm sorry bp..... I misunderstood. There was a recent post ("what the?") about people NOT critiqueing enough posts, and I was just doing my bit to keep the posts flowing.

I really enjoyed the pics..... brought back a lot of memories of a holiday I took on the canals in the UK. I also didn't realise that you're on holiday (I thought you were based there).

Fiona

by **WadeM** on Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:38 pm

famish wrote:I'm sorry bp..... I misunderstood. There was a recent post ("what the?") about people NOT critiqueing enough posts, and I was just doing my bit to keep the posts flowing.

Fiona

Fiona: I was doing the same.

BP, you posted in an Image Review and Critiquing forum. Who am I to know you're on holidays when your profile location states you live in the UK.

Yes the waterway is busy, but that does not mean your photos have to LOOK cluttered/crowded/distracting or BUSY etc.

You can take photos of a busy waterway without the photo looking busy. All the things I pointed out will still show the waterway as busy, but will make the photo appear less busy, allowing the waterway itself to become the focal point of the view, instead of all around the place.

bloop wrote:
big pix wrote:
WadeM wrote:Personally I find all of those photos FAR to busy. They all seem more like happy snaps then art.

........ considering that I am on holiday and being what the title of this post is, well now what more do I need to say.......

Looks like there are some conflicting views on the definition of this "Image Reviews and Critiques" forum... maybe the suggestion of having two forums (as per the other thread), i.e. Snapshot vs. Critique wasn't such a bad idea after all.

Here here. This forum isn't titled for happy snaps, it's titled for Image Reviews and Critiques. To expect something other then that in this forum seems silly to me.

Enioy your holidays.
--Wade

by **marcus** on Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:40 pm

Big Pix,

I am the owner of the "What The" post. So I guess I should pipe up here and say I know Fiona was only trying to do her bit probably influenced by my post.

When you get a chance to read through it you may understand why she was giving an input (Thanks Fiona!).

I like the shots but agree some work could be done. I'm sure when you get the chance you will finish some magnificent images.

by **big pix** on Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:38 am

...... why said images are cropped the way they are....

1.... gives location and start of a photo story of a unique area, along with the heading....

2.... tunnel roof shows that the water ways go through a series of tunnels as you can see another tunnel in the distance with a boat entering

3.... this shot given the angle, it has been shot from a high area or bridge, in this case a bridge, and the greenery helps to show what the area is like. To make it a tighter crop would would change the feel

4.... again a very loose crop to show location, a tight crop on this image just would not work and would not show the closeness of the canals to housing which is quite unique

5.... a slight crop on the left of this shot would improve the image but to crop to the boat ropes to be in the bottom right corner would be wrong as you then crop through the name of the boat in the foreground and end up with a very unbalanced image

if I can be shown some better crops of the images feel free but in doing so..... show location, ambience of the area, busy waterway and the unique closeness of the area to local housing

by **famish** on Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:28 pm

I'm sorry bp..... I misunderstood. There was a recent post ("what the?") about people NOT critiqueing enough posts, and I was just doing my bit to keep the posts flowing.

I really enjoyed the pics..... brought back a lot of memories of a holiday I took on the canals in the UK. I also didn't realise that you're on holiday (I thought you were based there).

Fiona

by **famish** on Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:29 pm

ooops - didn't mean to double post - bad use of the backspace key.

Please ignore.

Fiona

by **the foto fanatic** on Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:45 pm

This is where we get to with the "critique at all costs" viewpoint.

BP, with almost 1000 posts, posts some images of his holiday in the UK to give us a taste of what he is experiencing.

1st reply from someone with 126 posts, then someone with 19 posts, giving fairly direct "how this shot would be better" commentary.

Neither of these members would know that BP was a pro photographer in a previous life. Not a criticism of them, rather a comment that the growth of the forum means that we are not always on the same page.

When it was a smaller group, many of us knew a fair bit about the other members. Now we cannot assume that background knowledge. Combine this with email rather than direct verbal communication and we can have the outcomes we have seen recently - "those in the loop" and "critiques aren't valid" type of comment.

IMHO this all means that we need to be even more aware of "netiquette" and trying to absorb the culture of this forum. Comments like "this forum isn't titled for happy snaps" may seem to be the case to someone who has been here for 5 minutes, but in fact there have been informative images like these posted to this forum for a while.

Softly, softly people.

by **WadeM** on Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:27 pm

BP. We all take things in a different manner. I did not ask you to justify your methods of shooting. I simply did what I thought you were asking for - critique.

Cricketfan: You're right, I don't know BP's past, how in the world am I meant to know his past? That said the other side of the sword is none of you know that I've got 4 years of formal training in photography either. That doesn't make me any better then anything and I'm still a novice, but I've been shooting with a SLR for quite a long portion of my life (almost 30%!). If anything I should be better then I am. Anyhow. Forums are a learning place, and it takes time to learn about a person's character. How is a newbie meant to know BP is even on holidays when his profile states he's living in the UK?

Add to that, I've only got to go off what I can see here. And to me that's "Image Reviews and Critiques", meaning anything posted in here is after someone one's eye to cast over it. That does not mean better or worse, nor was it my intent to say I could do better, it's just how I would of done it. We're all unique.

I'll tell you what, BP will NEVER get me to comment on any other thread of his again. I don't want to risk him being on holidays. It's clear he wasn't happy with my comments. Actaully why comment at all, I don't know if people are after feedback unless they explictly ask for it. It's clear that posting in this forum doesn't mean you're after feedback.

Every forum has it's clique, and most forums says they does not exist. They always do. It's a time and visability issue, which is fair enough.

Personally I think this forum could be setup a bit differently to assist n00bs(seperating critique/holiday photos being 1 idea). There is also a lot of very low traffic sections - IE tutorials. A sticky linking to threads in the absolute begineer's section would save a whole entire section.

--Wade

by **glamy** on Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:45 pm

WadeM,
Like you, I am also very disappointed by the way this thread evolved.
Cheers,
Gerard

by **Glen** on Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:52 pm

Big Pix, glad you are enjoying your holiday, by the look of your shots looks like you were in a pleasant place to spend a few hours. Hope you found somewhere serving cold beer to enjoy that outlook. Hope the terrorists aren't spoiling your holiday

by **marcus** on Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:29 am

"Got a thin skin? Then look elsewhere."

This is the first phrase under the title "Image Reviews and Critiques" on the front page of this website. Lets all remember that. BTW as mentioned before, I like the images BP.

by **the foto fanatic** on Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:31 am

Disclaimer: There is no direct or implied criticism of ANYONE in this post!

But it appears that there is a problem, and perhaps we should look for a solution rather than just tossing self-justification around.

This forum may have altered over time from its original concept. It is really the only place to post pix. It seems to me that over time, people have posted all sorts of images here. Some photographers ask for critiques so that there can be no doubt that they are looking for positive and negative feedback. Others have just posted a picture to show what they have been doing lately, or an image that they like. Most of us have been through "hey, I'm new here, this is my first image, how am I going?" as an introduction to the others on the forum.

Although initially I didn't see a need for it, perhaps we do need another thread for images that aren't posted for specific critique, but are for general information about the member, eg a holiday, or something interesting that happened in their life that they want to share. After all, this place is about a bit more than just photography, as evidenced by the mini-meets and the anniversary week. Fellowship is also important.

Of course we need a thread where people can give their opinions about other member's images without fear or favour, and I recognise that the title of this forum indicates that it should happen here. In no way would I endorse any thoughts that valid criticism should be stifled.

I just point out that there are reasons for posting an image other than looking for a flat-out critique, and maybe we do need to cater more for that.

Best wishes to all
Edit: I've subsequently read the other thread where Gary has made it clear that there will be no second thread for images. We'll have to live with it.

by **big pix** on Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:52 pm

....... as members of this forum have the right to critique images posted, with out fear or favour, and the person who started the thread also has the right to justify why or how an image is presented.

Constructive critique is fine, but to comment on images posted, just to keep things flowing, or to comment without understanding the heading in relationship to the images, it is plain to see that no thought has gone into the critique of the images posted as headings of posting do say a lot.....

..... so lets all move on, I will keep posting any holiday snaps that are interesting, but will label them so there is no confusion with art.....