Just not my night...

[xerubus]

Just need to vent

I knew I should have gathered the funds together to go to the anniversary weekend.

One of the downsides of doing PJ work is that sometimes you can encounter some very 'emotional' people. Well... tonight was my turn.

Mark 0 - Father of accident victim 1

18 year old kid lost control of his vehicle whilst speeding and ended up in some trees with a broken VS commodore. Father was not impressed about a photographer being there, and.... one less D70 for me, and one very nice shiner. Fire fighters were very quick to grab the chap.. and police took him for a nice little chat quite quickly.

Look forward to the police report first thing in the morning...

I can understand the man is emotional... but come on!!! violence?!? His boy has a few scratches and doesn't even need to be transported by QAS!!

Put 70-200vr on my spare body and it seems to be working okay despite a rather sudden urge to be one with gravity....

ahhhhh... feel betther now... thanks for listening...

[Alex]

Sorry to hear, Mark. Hopefully somebody's insurance will cover it. Was it badly damaged?

Alex

[xerubus]

Sorry to hear, Mark. Hopefully somebody's insurance will cover it. Was it badly damaged?

Alex

no biggy.... my insurance will cover it.... just needed to vent

yeh... opened up like a can .... atleast i now know what the inside looks like...

cheers

[embi]

bugger...sorry to hear that......

[BBJ]

Mark thats a bugger, but yeh it happens. sorry to hear that but as long as insurance covers is good.

[xerubus]

Mark thats a bugger, but yeh it happens. sorry to hear that but as long as insurance covers is good.

was quite a rush... feel half important now...

cheers

[Frankenstein]

I guess that's one of the risks of PJ work, although there's really no excuse for his actions.

Frank

[Antsl]

At least in the good old days of Nikon F4s and alike the option was to get in a hit with the camera ... at least you knew it was tough enough to take the knock while putting a meaningful "f*@! off" into the mind of your assailant!

Had the event been a fatal accident I would suggest letting it drop ... given that they both walked away from it though I would be pursuing assault charges .... seek damages and only drop the charges if they replace the camera.

[embi]

So is there any images on the CF card?

[xerubus]

At least in the good old days of Nikon F4s and alike the option was to get in a hit with the camera ... at least you knew it was tough enough to take the knock while putting a meaningful "f*@! off" into the mind of your assailant!

Had the event been a fatal accident I would suggest letting it drop ... given that they both walked away from it though I would be pursuing assault charges .... seek damages and only drop the charges if they replace the camera.

yeh.. i spoke with a police officer when I got there to find out what has happened and the plight of the people involved... always do this as it can sway the way you act around a scene....

no excuse for his actions... and he will be paying for my camera gear. not interested in damages etc etc etc as it's just one of those things...

cheers

[xerubus]

So is there any images on the CF card?

two of when i arrived:





and one at the exact time that the chap grabbed my camera:

[embi]

So you didn't even see him coming

[embi]

Hmmm that last image. His son did keep left of the sign

[xerubus]

no .. didn't see him coming... he was a coward.... otherwise i would have swung the 70-200 around and shown him that mine was bigger than his...

yeh... kept very left

cheers

[Jamie]

I think its quite funny in a way!

Perhaps it will make you think twice about your actions in the future and how they affect the family's and friends of the people involved.

Im more than sure they wouldnt be too happy to see images of their loved ones misfortune put on the internet without their permission for all to view.

[pippin88]

You think violence and willful damage to property funny?

The guy had every right to come up to Mark and express his dislike of what Mark was doing (legitimately taking photos of an accident in a public area), verbally and politely. That's it, no more.
Mark had every right to continue what he was doing, photographing a scene in a public place.

Are a few photos of a car accident (looks like it might have been their fault anyway) really going to harm them? The number plate is likely the only identifier, and I don't know anyone else's number plates than my own.

[Antsl]

I think its quite funny in a way!

Perhaps it will make you think twice about your actions in the future and how they affect the family's and friends of the people involved.

Im more than sure they wouldnt be too happy to see images of their loved ones misfortune put on the internet without their permission for all to view.

So long as you are in public land you are permitted to make any image you want so long as you do not misrepresent those people you are photographing (ie, you cannot put a byline under the photo saying the driver was drunk if that was not the case). I think what is important though is that you are able to qualify the reasons why you are making the images. If you are an accredited member of the media or a regular freelancer and you know that the image has news value (not just because the image will look good on page three or you are going to make money out it but because it will illustrate the fact that teenage drivers are still causing problems on the roads) then make the image. If you are making the photo for your own personal purposes though then I would ask why and what you are gaining from it.

What is interesting is that most of us want to see for ourselves what a bus looked like after it was blown up or what a murderer looks like as they go into court or even what a celebrity wore at their private wedding ... many people though cannot cope when the cameras are turned on them for a few moments of media interest, no matter what the circumstances.

[Andyt]

Xerubus,

I have a FED3 (Russian) in my collection that I can let you have, it looks like a camera and takes pics, you hang it around your neck, but its one outstanding quality is that you can break bricks with it, throw it at menacing dogs, use it to block-up the off side wheels while you change a flat tyre, and it still takes pics!

Sorry to hear of the incident, and that you are O'K,

Andyt

[the foto fanatic]

Mark
This is awful - thank goodness you are not hurt.
I would have thought in this day & age people may have had more idea about the press.
Hope you & your camera can be repaired

[gstark]

I think its quite funny in a way!

Perhaps it will make you think twice about your actions in the future and how they affect the family's and friends of the people involved.

Im more than sure they wouldnt be too happy to see images of their loved ones misfortune put on the internet without their permission for all to view.

Mark,

We're all shocked to hear of this.

Jamie,

Have you seen any or Mark's work? What he was doing was legal, and if you look at his woirk, he carries it out with a great deal of respect for the accident victims, and a high level of sensitivity and integrity.

What happened was entirely out of order.

[JordanP]

Mark,

I was on the live feed from the AW dinner and they had read the thred. Gary wanted to let you know that everyone there was shocked and hoping you were OK. He also encouraged you to make sure the father takes responsibility as his behavour was unexceptable.

I might have said a few things wrong or left something out - just going from memory.

Personally,
I'm glad you sound OK and that you are looking at the experience positively. Must have been a fair addrenalin rush. I hope you heal quickly and that the replacement D70s isn't far away.

Cheers,

[PiroStitch]

Mark that's absolutely shocking what happened. Granted the father was upset, but to unleash his frustrations at you and your gear was totally uncalled for.

PJ isn't an easy job to do as previously mentioned. Oddly enough, I was reading up on Kevin Carter tonight. The stuff he was involved in was much more hardcore than what happened to Mark....not a position I definitely envy

[JordanP]

I think its quite funny in a way!

Perhaps it will make you think twice about your actions in the future and how they affect the family's and friends of the people involved.

Im more than sure they wouldnt be too happy to see images of their loved ones misfortune put on the internet without their permission for all to view.

Jamie,

I find it funny in no way at all. If you had any idea of the work a PJ does you would know that your comments are not appropriate.

[Glen]

Mark, sorry to hear that, glad you are ok

[Matt. K]

Mark
Sorry to hear about the incident and the assault. You seem to be taking the right attitude to the whole affair and you are probably learning that this kind of photography can have these types of consequences. It takes a great deal of sensitivity and awareness to operate as a photographer in areas where people are emotionally distressed. People are likely to act in an irrational manner and do things that they normally would not do. If a parent or a friend is distressed about someone they deeply care about at an accident scene then they often see the photographer as someone trying to profit through the misfortune of others. This is an ethical dilemma and one that has been going on for many years, in fact,as long as photography has been invented. So this is an occupational hazard and it will probably pop up many times in your future photography. Guess what? there is no solution to this. You have to have empathy and you have to know when to put the camera away for awhile and maybe help out with the accident. The rule has to be....man first, photographer second. Hope everything resolves out OK.

[Nnnnsic]

That's awful.

When I got word passed to me that had happened I felt truly terrible... just one more reason for you to have come down here for the weekend.

[Onyx]

Mark, the word was circulating in real time at our anniversary dinner about your misadventure - due to the live chat facility we had setup by Nnnnsic and Gary. It was truly a low point of the evening for me hearing that harm had come your way.

I truly hope you press charges to the full extent allowable by law on behalf of all hardworking PJs everywhere. Hope your pain and bruises recover soon, and I hope you have no hassles with insurance coughing up.

In conclusion, I leave you with this saying: The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[Geoff]

Mark - I too was at the MW meet and was really saddened to hear about your mis fortune! I'm glad you are ok though, I hope justice comes to the guy who lets his emotions get int he way of something that was not out of order, and that was you doing your PJ thing!

[sirhc55]

Mark - sorry to hear of the incident tonight. The person should be charged with assault on your person because that is exactly what it was. Politeness goes a long way in this world, or should

[xerubus]

Thankyou to everyone who has replied.... goes to show how great this forum is and has always been. I appreciate everyone's thoughts.... thankyou.

Jamie.... whilst I believe everyone has the right to their own beliefs, you need to be very careful that what opinions you may have are backed up with a well educated foundation.

Thanks all .... cheers

[birddog114]

Mark,
Latest and hottest news from you since last nifght, but I was too busy with thing surrounding and I would like to express my sorry and feeling to you.

I have been down that road, been abused and attacked by one of the wife of the victim on HW 101 South, Orange County, LA, 23 years ago, similar story to you, but worst damages, the gears were from AP, I was doing a quick job for one friend of mine, while he was busy with his new born baby and I was a backup/ relay team.

Life of PJ is very fast and quite danger in some cases, but we had to do our job for living or for fun or a hobby. With our professionalism, we had to be strong and accept all the loss, suffering same as other war correspondences got killed in the front.

Mark, don't worry too much about the damages of the gear, those can be replaced, just look after yourself, leave the stresses away and carry on what you're doing.
I have my salute to you as one of my colleagues, friend, and I'm your supporter.

[xerubus]

Mark,
Latest and hottest news from you since last nifght, but I was too busy with thing surrounding and I would like to express my sorry and feeling to you.

I have been down that road, been abused and attacked by one of the wife of the victim on HW 101 South, Orange County, LA, 23 years ago, similar story to you, but worst damages, the gears were from AP, I was doing a quick job for one friend of mine, while he was busy with his new born baby and I was a backup/ relay team.

Life of PJ is very fast and quite danger in some cases, but we had to do our job for living or for fun or a hobby. With our professionalism, we had to be strong and accept all the loss, suffering same as other war correspondences got killed in the front.

Mark, don't worry too much about the damages of the gear, those can be replaced, just look after yourself, leave the stresses away and carry on what you're doing.
I have my salute to you as one of my colleagues, friend, and I'm your supporter.

Thankyou Birddog... it means a lot....

I'm absolutely fine... and knew before I started doing PJ work what the possible outcomes could be at times.... right now I'm looking forward to another day of trying to get 'that' shot.

cheers and take care....

[marcotrov]

Mark
I'm sure the experience was traumatic but as others have alluded to an occupational health hazzard for PJ's. Sounds like you have handled the experience with integrity, maturity and balanced perspective. Unfortunately the likes of the unscrupulous paparazzi around the world have given many members of society a rather skewed perception of the moral and ethical fibre of ALL PJ's, especially in the emotionally charged atmosphere of a road accident involving family members. I am sure, however, you can hold your head up and know that when you look in that mirror in the morning you are proud of what you see and value. Chin up mate (maybe that's the wrong phrase given what happened) keep up the good work. You have a lot of supporters and we're with you.
marco

[Hudo]

Mark,

Glad to hear your OK. I guess it' a possability when you do the work you do. Didn't we say a few weeks back you could end up in one of your stories one day?

While coming back from a country shoot Friday a MTU unit got me for a few km's over the speed limit ( just a few). I thought about getting my camera out and being part of the story but thought nah let it go. Then the video editing suite crashed yesterday so I'm having one of those weekends as well $$$.

The most important thing is your Ok and still have your sense of humour.

Mark

[rjlhughes]

I suppose that the open aggression from a relative is easier to deal with than the sly contempt that you might get from the emergency services whose job it is to be there, but who'd rather not be and don't approve of the pix either.

(Noted as a former ambulance chaser news reporter)

[Jamie]

It seems that most of you (apart from one pm I received) have a different opinion than I do on the matter and that’s fair enough. I however would like to clear up that I don’t think Mark getting assaulted and the loss of his gear is funny at all!

I was referring to the fact that this is just one side of the incident (the accident not the assault) and the fact that there are statements that with the change of one or two words and replaced with the ACTUAL facts or lack there of is nothing but a typical media hype that we see and hear every day.

Here is an example of what I mean, “18 year old kid lost control of his vehicle whilst speeding and ended up in some trees with a broken VS commodore.” Change this to “A man lost control of his vehicle for reasons unknown and ended up in some trees with a broken VS Commodore” Now it sounds rather boring right?
As far as I’m aware at 18 you are classed as an adult by law and not a kid any longer, you are required to vote, pay taxes, legal drinking age etc, as any adult is in this country. So why call him a “kid”?
Can you be sure he was speeding?
I don’t see, and Mark doesn’t state that any crash investigation team was on site to confirm this. If it was the case was it 1, 2, 10 or 50kph over the posted speed limit?
Perhaps the car was faulty, perhaps the guy was changing a CD, or he failed to see a change in the speed limit or an animal ran out onto the road?

All we see and read here is that Mark was assaulted while taking pictures (legal) of an accident scene and an emotional father venting his frustration in a violent manner (illegal) that I can’t help but feel sorry for as well.

I have seen Marks other works and I quite enjoy seeing them, I do however think that comments such as the ones made in this thread should be kept to himself unless they are actual facts and he states them as being so.

Mark, I think you do great work and go about it in a very professional manner, on the other hand you do have to be very careful as to what’s also going on around you at the time of taking these pictures as you have no doubt found out (motor sport photographers never put themselves in a position between the vehicles and barriers behind them without an easy and quick escape route or shouldn’t at least). You may have been very lucky up until now but you can be sure that incidents such as these will happen again in the future! May I suggest that you (if you don’t already) get a high visibility vest with your company logo / name / media or something printed on the back so at least that way people involved in the incidents also know who you are, and know your not just some clown off the street taking pictures. It may save you from incidents such as this in the future, but you can be sure not all.

As for other comments made about me and my comments in this thread, I’m not even going to bother responding to them, some are good but most are outrageous, claiming in a way that I don’t know what is legal and what isn’t and also that I’m uneducated in PJ and what they do etc.

P.S. Keep an eye on what’s coming from behind and I hope you get your gear replaced asap.

Jamie

[gstark]

As far as I’m aware at 18 you are classed as an adult by law and not a kid any longer

Yes, absolutely.

And Leigh (nnnnsic) is 21, my son, and AFAIC, still a kid.

Mark is close to my age, and to us, anyone inder, perhaps 25 or so, will be regarded as a kid, regardless of their legal status.

I don’t see, and Mark doesn’t state that any crash investigation team was on site to confirm this. If it was the case was it 1, 2, 10 or 50kph over the posted speed limit?
Perhaps the car was faulty, perhaps the guy was changing a CD, or he failed to see a change in the speed limit or an animal ran out onto the road?

So, are you suggesting the the vehicle being unraodworthy, or the dirver, in driiving negligently, makes this ok?

The basic rule of the road is that you should always be able to stop within any distance that prevents you from colliding with another vehicle/object/whatever. Failing to observe a change in a speed limit would be negligence, as would running off the road while changing a CD. If an animal runs out on the road and your choice is to hit the animal or engage in a collision ... the law is clear, and a collison is not the option.

All we see and read here is that Mark was assaulted while taking pictures (legal) of an accident scene and an emotional father venting his frustration in a violent manner (illegal) that I can’t help but feel sorry for as well.

Nobody is denying the father his right to be emotional, but for him to deal with Mark in this manner is simply inexcusablle. it's immature, it's wrong, and it's unjustifiable.

[Onyx]

>To Jamie's post.

FFS.

(Gary's post summarises my thoughts. You can read that as "I can't think for myself so I'll let Gary speak for me" if you like)

[Antsl]

Perhaps the car was faulty, perhaps the guy was changing a CD, or he failed to see a change in the speed limit or an animal ran out onto the road? Jamie

So Jamie, please clarify .... are these valid reasons for having a car accident .... can we use these lines in court as our defence in future (just in case!)!?

Who cares what age a person is .... if they have a car accident for any of the above reasons they are are guilty of driving irresponsibly. Many of these are reasons are why many innocent people get killed on our roads, simply because they happened to around a f#*kwit behind the wheel who was changing a CD or did not bother looking at the speed signs or driving within the conditions.

If the car was faulty the driver has a responsibility to get it roadworthy before driving it, if the driver cannot change a CD safely while driving then leave it, if they cannot keep an eye on speed limits, get glasses and if something jumps out from the side of the road and you cannot stop in time then chances are you were driving to fast for the conditions anyway.

Perhaps the only surprise to some people reading your second post Jamie is that you did not add "or the guy just had one drink too many" to your list of possible excuses!

Your arguments are lame ... quit while you can!

[Jamie]

So Jamie, please clarify .... are these valid reasons for having a car accident .... can we use these lines in court as our defence in future (just in case!)!?



No none of them are, nor did i say they were, i was just throwing some other ideas in rather than the usual speeding reason the media always use. However if you do want a defence to use in the future......just say you sneezed.

[Yedrup]

Mark, firstly I would like to add my wishes that you are ok and that the incident doesn't influence your passion for your job. I appreciate the imagery that you post and hope that once your gear is replaced and your body healed I may see more of it.

Secondly I would like to add. It makes no difference what so ever how the accident occurred the assault on Mark who was carrying out his legitimate activity is definitely out of order. I don't give a monkey's whether the driver was drunk, avoided a cat, dropped a smoke into his lap or whatever. The only right the father had was the right to be p##sed at his son and to request Mark not capture the images. Not only is the son possibly in strife with the law but I would hope that the father definitely is.

Hope the adrenaline settles soon, bruises heal, camera replaced and you continue the good work.

Cheers,
Terry

[gstark]

No none of them are, nor did i say they were, i was just throwing some other ideas in rather than the usual speeding reason the media always use. However if you do want a defence to use in the future......just say you sneezed.

Mark,

From the image of the car that you've posted, it looks to me as if it's quite a way off the road. And well nestled into the shrubbery.

Seems likely to be excessive speed for the conditions to me ....

And Jamie, while I don't want to pick your arguments to pieces, the age factor of the driver does actually pick up a fair degree of significance when one considers that, at age 18, a driver might have maybe all of 12 months experience behind the wheel of a car.

I have 35 odd years, countless miles, on three continents, and have driven in some of the heaviest traffic regions of the world; I'm still learning and trying my hardest, at all times, to avoid getting hit by others. An 18 year old driver is lucky to be able to walk away from their first few incidents; hopefully both father and son will learn from this.

Mark, I'm relieved to hear that you're fine, and that, importantly, your attitude is not injured.

[Killakoala]

Mark, i am grateful that you are OK and are able to shrug it off like a true Aussie trooper. I hope that all the offenders get what they deserve and more importantly, that they learn the valuable lesson that has occurred from their mishaps.

FACT: The majority of road accidents in QLD are caused by 'Inattention.'
(Source RACQ Magazine 2004)

I hope you get your camera replaced soon so you can get back out there and do your job mate.