PotW, August 9, 2005

[gstark]

Something a little bit different this week.

All of the mods got together and agreed that this photo deserves to be PotW for this week.




And why not?

Great PP work here, and who can argue with the subject matter?

Original thread is here.

[Oneputt]

Excellent choice - it is most amusing

[Greg B]

Very nicely done Deb.

[sirhc55]

An example of why one should contest their speeding fine - nicely executed PP Deb

[BBJ]

I agree Deb this is great, the pp work is wonderful and yeh well done.
Congrats on POTW

[stubbsy]

Congrats deb - very clever.

[the foto fanatic]

[WadeM]

Ok here's the stick in the mud comment.

This is PICTURE of the week thread. That's a PHOTOSHOP job of a fairly average photo @ best.

I DO like the IMAGE, and it's a great photoshop job, something akin to what you'd see on FARK (only the D in D70 is a bit off).

The post processing done in this photo, wasn't to adjust the curves, nor was it to bring out certain details, it was to create something that wasn't there. I highly doubt ANYONE could do that in a traditional dark room.

For me, there's a difference between a photo and an image. A photo is out of the camera, with minimal PP (USM and white balance). An image is something that's got bits cloned out or modified heavily in PP. I guess we all have different levels of what's acceptable.

You've now got me thinking I might go take a photo that's fairly average in it's framing, subject matter and lighting, and then photochop it up. I'm thinking a wall, and in photoshop I'll graphiti up something that says D70 lives for ever. Or maybe I'll stick to the bridge theme, and put a massive banner above the bridge that says D70 4eva.

This site has masses of quality photos day in and day out, I feel this was/is a one off due to the 1 year aniversary, but is it really PHOTO of the week? To me it's photoshop of the week, not PHOTO of the week.

As I said, stick in the mud.

--Wadem

[Nnnnsic]

It's still a photo, Wade, it just has Photoshop work done on it.

There are lots of photos without PP work published here, and then again there are lots of photos with PP work published here.

There are inversions, effects filtered, painted, cloned... all sorts of things.

Nonetheless, it's still a photo, it's just been photoshopped.

Great work Deb.

[informer]

Is this a joke?

[Aussie Dave]

Well done Deb. I mist admit, the first time I saw your original thread, I thought it was real (I wasn't lucky enough to come to the AW - so I was admittedly a little naive).

As for the issue - is it a real POTW or a joke:

I don't remember seeing anywhere that the "best" photo (technical or otherwise) of the week had to become the POTW. Creativity can be just as much a part of a photo/image. I believe that this photo, whilst not maybe the "best" photo posted during the course of last week, is very creative and has a significant meaning to most people participating within the forum.

Of course, I can see conjecture and that "infinity looking symbol" (I'll refrain from mentioning that name - just for you Gary) looking to rear it's ugly head again.

AND....it's only a bit of fun. Winning a POTW myself, I will say that I felt honoured and very happy one of my photos was chosen.....but does it really mean anything ?? Is it something so serious that we need to debate about what is chosen, every 2nd week ??

People, let's move on.....

Again, nice one Deb ! Don't let this spoil your moment !

[gstark]

Ok here's the stick in the mud comment.

And you're quite entitled to make your comment.

However,

This is PICTURE of the week thread. That's a PHOTOSHOP job of a fairly average photo @ best.

You do need to go and have a look at the rules for selection of the PotW.
Look at them, read them, and please, take a few moments to understand them.

I've said this before, and I'll say it just one more time: there is no selection criteria whatsoever for PotW.

None!

It is, always has been, and always will be a case of whatever the person making the selection feels like selecting at that time. That may mean it could be a masterpiece, or something less.

That said, this week was something a bit special, and when this photo popped up, it seemed to the mods - all of us - that it had some special characteristics that separated it from the other photos this week.

And that is why, this week, it was a group selection by all five of the mods.

You can like it, or you can lump it, but it still falls within our selection criteria, and we're thrilled to have selected it as this week's image.


Let's now get back to your critique ...

I DO like the IMAGE, and it's a great photoshop job,

ok ...

The post processing done in this photo, wasn't to adjust the curves, nor was it to bring out certain details, it was to create something that wasn't there. I highly doubt ANYONE could do that in a traditional dark room.

I think you'd be very surprised at what can, and cannot, be done in a traditional darkroom.

Serious question: have you ever worked in one?

A couple of things I've done include a photo of Leigh's mum climbing out of a kid's sandshoe, and a photo of Sydney Tower, with the turret just halfway up the mast.

That latter one was done when I worked at AMP (Sydney Tower's owners) and radio 2SM pushed an April Fools' day joke that suggested the turret was going to go up and down on the mast to move people to the top, rather than elevators through the centre of the mast. That image was published in one of AMP's in-house journals at the time.

Faking that sign in a traditional darkroom would be childs' play.

For me, there's a difference between a photo and an image. A photo is out of the camera, with minimal PP (USM and white balance). An image is something that's got bits cloned out or modified heavily in PP. I guess we all have different levels of what's acceptable.

Having spent a great deal of time in a dark room, dodging, burning, printing, and so on, the question of what is valid post processing in a digitial sense bothers me little. I know what can be done in a darkroom, and the sky's the limit.

Tools like PS only make the task easier, but it's no different, and we all need to decide where our boundaries for acceptance lie.

And besides ... at which point do you say that "this" is too much PP? How, and where, do you draw the line?

You've now got me thinking I might go take a photo that's fairly average in it's framing, subject matter and lighting, and then photochop it up. I'm thinking a wall, and in photoshop I'll graphiti up something that says D70 lives for ever. Or maybe I'll stick to the bridge theme, and put a massive banner above the bridge that says D70 4eva.

Please, by all means. Be my guest.

But a large part of of this image was the creative genius that came up with the concept in the first place, and that was Deb's idea. Her thoughts. Her concept.

Her finished product.

Which, for me at any rate, was as much of a reason - the creative thought inherent in the decision to create that image in the first instance - to award PotW to this image as any other.

[gstark]

Dave,

I don't remember seeing anywhere that the "best" photo (technical or otherwise) of the week had to become the POTW. Creativity can be just as much a part of a photo/image. I believe that this photo, whilst not maybe the "best" photo posted during the course of last week, is very creative and has a significant meaning to most people participating within the forum.

Exactly right.

Well said, and thank you for saying this.

[stubbsy]

I've reflected on this and while I have already congratulated Deb (both here and in her original post) on the cleverness of this I agree with Wade that, for me, this falls outside the bounds of POTW. MY interpretation of POTW is that it's the best picture of the week (of course that's always gojng to be open to interpretation) and for me this is nowhere near the best of what's been posted in the past week.

I think the sentiment of the occasion is right, but I guess if this was to be POTW for those reasons a second POTW should also have been chosen.

Having said all of that I'll defend to the death Gary's choice. Each of us sees things differently. For Gary and the others involved this is the POTW for them. It's just not the POTW for me. In a democracy the viewpoint of the individual isn't always reflected in the outcomes of the group. I accept and abide by that.

[Greg B]

Geez. Talk about over analysing.

Join the dots....

1. PotW, no rules
2. Anniversary weekend
3. Clever fun photo reflecting said Anniversary weekend

For god's sake, relax. Everybody. We are having fun!!

[stubbsy]

Geez. Talk about over analysing.

Join the dots....

1. PotW, no rules
2. Anniversary weekend
3. Clever fun photo reflecting said Anniversary weekend

For god's sake, relax. Everybody. We are having fun!!

Greg

You're right. But my shrink tells me there's no harm in analysis (oops, my time is up)

[Onyx]

I don't know if there's some who believe the sign said something else and Deb cleverly photochopped it to say D70 - but the sign on the north side of harbour bridge on that day really did have that on it. ie. There has been no alteration on Deb's part to obtain that image. I saw it too with my own eyes, had a chuckle - and failed to take a photo which I now realise could have settled some arguements.

[Glen]

Thanks Onyx. Lets be clear, we all said this was a fitting shot in light of the AA weekend. We all had a good time and had a big smile after seeing this. Geoff gets his go instead next week to choose based on other values. I am surprised there is dissent of celebration of what was really a fabulous weekend where I met lots of new and interesting people.

[gstark]

Having said all of that I'll defend to the death Gary's choice.

Except that it's not my choice.

It's a group choice, agreed by all 5 mods.




That said, as soon as I saw it, my thought was PotW.

[Greg B]

Stubbsy, you're excused on the strength of the wine you brought on Friday night.

[stubbsy]

Having said all of that I'll defend to the death Gary's choice.

Except that it's not my choice.

It's a group choice, agreed by all 5 mods.




That said, as soon as I saw it, my thought was PotW.

Apologies Gary - read but not digested. I defend the right of all of you and for me this is really a non issue. It's fun to have something whimsical. I have no problem with your collective choice, nor with Deb's work - it's just not something I would have chosen - not the first POTW like that nor the last and for me not a controversial choice either. It's been an important week we've just had. This is a grand recognition of that fact.

[stubbsy]

Stubbsy, you're excused on the strength of the wine you brought on Friday night.

Oh, the wine was strong - now I know why I had a bad headache the next day. I thought maybe I'd drunk too much

[Mj]

Sigh... and as we grow the growing pains will increase !!!

These are serious times and this is a serious site and you vill cease all this fun and frivolity mmm... pity there's no rasberry emoticon.

Let's keep POTW relaxed and informal. This week's photo is a nice bit of fun, very topical, and clearly entertained quite a few of us, so it suits the title quite nicely...

Let's leave the serious reviews to the competitions and to those photographs submitted for serious comment (i.e. the poster requests proper assessment).

[gstark]

Peter,

It's been an important week we've just had. This is a grand recognition of that fact.

Exactly.

This has that element: it's a very fun image, but underlying those two very simple facts there is still the inherent creative thought behind Deb's work in this image. It still needed someone to think of the idea, and that is exactly what Deb did.

Now, is that creative spark any less relevant than, for instance, Mark's multi-coloured glass from a month or two back, or perhaps the Belgian contingent's Red Chair (non-PotW) exercise, also from a month or two back?

All were/are very creative concepts, and surely that underlying creativity also has a place here.

[Mj]

Stubbsy, you're excused on the strength of the wine you brought on Friday night.

Oh, the wine was strong - now I know why I had a bad headache the next day. I thought maybe I'd drunk too much

Strong wine... musta been partaking of some Rutherglen red !!!

[mic]

Well done Deb !

Mic.

[smac]

Deb,

Great work in Photoshop, you obviously have more patience than I have.....I just want to know what the sign said before the er um .....alterations?

Stuart

[kinetic]

These are serious times and this is a serious site and you vill cease all this fun and frivolity mmm... pity there's no rasberry emoticon.

What about this one....

Nice Shot - I'm glad to see that you all had fun in Sydney.

[Frankenstein]

Geez. Talk about over analysing.

Join the dots....

1. PotW, no rules
2. Anniversary weekend
3. Clever fun photo reflecting said Anniversary weekend

For god's sake, relax. Everybody. We are having fun!!

Exactly Greg. A light-hearted image timed for the AW, not meant to be classed as a masterpiece for the ages (sorry Deb).

Frank

[informer]

I really don't know what to say, I'm sure even Deb wasn't expecting it.

Not taking anything away from Deb, but I think it should go under candid shot of the week or something because nobody is going to know what the picture is about. It is an insult to other people who has been putting out some great pictures. I'm not insulted at all but the people behind PotW must be playing some kind of joke, might as well forget about section if you can't take the rest of us seriously.

[Matt. K]

What on earth is going on here? It's a great POW! It makes the AW complete. Well done Deb! Well done mods! Clever stuff, and I think this thread has gone as far as it needs to. For the knockers...start posting pictures that you think should make POW.

[WadeM]

Last post on these forums. My opinion in the ~month I've been around here has lined up with you all(the collective) a grand total of 0 times. From critiquing, to POTW, to what makes a photo, to making a joke on the canon forums. Good luck to you all. I'll continue snapping and growing as a photographer I hope, and I wish the same to you all.

To whoever asked: I have 3.5 years experience in a darkroom. I used to develop 2-3 rolls of film(ISO50-3200) a week, and then developed between 10-30 shots a week. I've burnt/dodged in a dark room. I've also created halos around heads, created montages as well as super imposing items on top of each other. Anyhow the point's not to show off I can develop film, rather show I do have an understand of a chemical based darkroom.

To do something like the shot that's in a darkroom, you would need to have the text somewhere in the first place to super impose. And unless someone's got a RTA sign, or going to draw one, then take a photo of it, develop it and super impose it on the background, it wouldn't happen in a B&W darkroom.

ANY POTW regardless of what special week it is, should be almost technically perfect like it is every other week in my mind.

--Wade

[johndec]

For crying out loud, a couple of people here have obviously had a sense of humour bypass It's POTW, no rules, no prizes, no great kudos except for having your pic on the front page for 7 days...

To all those Zen-Masters-of-Photography who feel slighted that their serious work of art missed out because a fun, quirky and extrememly topical photo got the gong this week, look on the bright side, you have 51 weeks out of 52 to impress us.. Let the mods have some fun this week. BTW, I completely agree with their choice, well done Deb

[Greg B]

Well said John.

[Glen]

Informer it is clear by your post that you did not share the joie de vivre of the people who attended the AA. This photo is a celebration of that, nothing more nothing less. Don't bother trying to read deeper into it.

[Greg B]

Well said Glen.

[Greg B]

Well said Matt K.

[Glen]

Wade, thanks for letting us know the rules for the pic of the week. Any more we should know about?

I agree with all above, it's time to get a sense of humour, we are not curing cancer here, just looking at a few images.

[Greg B]

Wade has left the building Glen.

Exit, Stage right

[johndec]

My opinion in the ~month I've been around here has lined up with you all(the collective) a grand total of 0 times.

Hey, we've evolved!! No longer just a loop, we are now a collective...

Why do I feel like saying "Resistance is Futile"

[HappyFotographer]

Goodness, a 3 page thread certainly not what I had in mind as I snapped off the image of the sign with plans of what I wanted to do already running through my mind.....and believe me not much runs through there anymore!

Firstly let me say thanks to the mods for choosing the image in the light that it was submitted......in fun and in celebration of what was a great weekend for myself personally and for the group as a whole.

And people are right, as an image by itself it is "average @ best" but hey, it's a picture of an RTA sign.....how good could it get?

It was never meant to be more than a bit of fluff and fun for everyone, and in all honesty, I think that this thread has gotten way too serious. I don't see where choosing something that is a bit of fun is an insult in any way to the many highly talented people on this forum......surely they can't be that unsure of their talent that my little attempt at fun hurts them in anyway.

not meant to be classed as a masterpiece for the ages (sorry Deb).

Frank, my husband loved this post, but then this whole thread made him laugh.

And for Stuart, here is a photo (and given that I haven't done anything to it I can call it a photo not an image) of the sign before my tinkering.



See, not even that much tinkering done.

So once again, thanks to those that enjoyed the image in the spirit it was submitted....may there always be room for a bit of fun.

Cheers
Deb

[waspo]

Hi Deb,
What a clever and creative idea. It certainly had me fooled. Great PS skills you have and congratulations on winning POTW!
To the knockers, IMHO there's really no set rules to what is expected week-by-week. So what if it's not got the technical standards you're looking for. It's relivant to the moment to those who were invovled and for those who weren't invovled, will perhaps feel a sense of what they missed out on.
I also think images like these add a bit more variety and light heartedness from time to time. Nothing needs to be quite serious all of the time.
Wade, don't be like that. Enjoy it for a week and hope for something more desirable next time.
Cheers, Jase.

[Killakoala]

I liked it. I had a laugh. Great insight Deb.

And a very appropriate Picture Of The Week.

[gstark]

might as well forget about section if you can't take the rest of us seriously.

Nothing on this site is meant to be taken seriously. It's recreational site, and I think it's high time that a few of you started to understand that simple fact of life.

[gstark]

Last post on these forums.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

My opinion in the ~month I've been around here has lined up with you all(the collective) a grand total of 0 times.

I would respectfully suggest that there may be a message in that for you. I would strongly suggest not shooting the messenger, however..

From critiquing, to POTW, to what makes a photo, to making a joke on the canon forums. Good luck to you all. I'll continue snapping and growing as a photographer I hope, and I wish the same to you all.

You seem very confident of this. Based on some of your comments, I would be very loathe in sharing your confidence. Sorry.

To whoever asked: I have 3.5 years experience in a darkroom. I used to develop 2-3 rolls of film(ISO50-3200) a week, and then developed between 10-30 shots a week. I've burnt/dodged in a dark room. I've also created halos around heads, created montages as well as super imposing items on top of each other. Anyhow the point's not to show off I can develop film, rather show I do have an understand of a chemical based darkroom.

Again, the facts belie your statements here. 3.5 years isn't that long, and 2-3 rolls of film per week is a frighteningly small number of images to have processed. When we had our wedding business, it was up to 100 rolls per week, but that's not the issue.

To do something like the shot that's in a darkroom, you would need to have the text somewhere in the first place to super impose. And unless someone's got a RTA sign, or going to draw one, then take a photo of it, develop it and super impose it on the background, it wouldn't happen in a B&W darkroom.

Let me assure you that the examples I gave you in an earlier message happenned in a B&W darkroom, and as I said, this one too, in a B&W darkroom, would be a no brainer.

And this is the point:

There is an element of geniius in the thought processes required to come up the the concept of this image. Whether you like the image or not is irrelevant; the concept is brilliant, and from that perspective alone, it is fully deserving of the PotW, IMHO.

ANY POTW regardless of what special week it is, should be almost technically perfect like it is every other week in my mind.

Er, no.

That might be your idea of PotW, but, upon last checking, this was not your forum. Please now, do me the common courtesy of reading and comprehending my (many) messages in which I believe I have made it very bloody clear that there are no criteria behind the selection of PotW.

None, dammit.

And if you have a problem with that concept, then please take your thinking elswhere - you can certainly start your own forums if you wish - and have your own PotW, with your rules.

I promise you I won't complain!

[gstark]

My opinion in the ~month I've been around here has lined up with you all(the collective) a grand total of 0 times.

Hey, we've evolved!! No longer just a loop, we are now a collective...

Why do I feel like saying "Resistance is Futile"

Exterminate!

Exterminate!

[big pix]

I liked it. I had a laugh. Great insight Deb.

And a very appropriate Picture Of The Week.

......also gave me a good laugh......well done deb....I wish I could have been at the meet.....

[birddog114]

Deb,
I'm enjoying your creative! and we have had a great AW! The POTW is your contribution to the fun.
Why should we stop it or against it

[Greg B]

I just revisited the PotW "definition" on the index page....

Each week, one of the moderators or administrators selects an image that, for whatever reason, catches their eye. Please feel free to add your comments here

The emphasis is mine.

Couldn't be any clearer.

The invitation to comment, I think, relates to the image rather than an invitation to make an interpretation of what the definition does or should mean.

Speaking as one of those who makes the selections, I trust we as a forum will continue to enjoy this most casual of arrangements, the purpose of which is nothing more than add to the fun for all concerned.

[Aussie Dave]

very well pointed out Greg.

I feel it is unnecessary to second guess the MOD who chooses the POTW. We should be talking about the picture that has been selected, NOT why it was selected (at least to this extent anyway).

Just my opinion...