Practising 20mm/f4 AI

[krpolak]

20mm/f4 AI is not easy beast. But with a bit of practise and luck it is possible to keep it thight Comments are welcome

Regards,

K.Polak








... and 28/f2.8D in action. This one is less skittish


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[wendellt]

Hi Krystian
the pool reflection shot is just brilliant!

[Dargan]

Did you have to correct the vertical lines in the building in the first image in PS (ie; a use for vanishing point?)

[Dargan]

I like the second image but agree that the reflection shot is the more challenging.

[krpolak]

wendellt

Hi Krystian
the pool reflection shot is just brilliant!

I like it as well. It seems like a Matrix, wavy reality and grid at the top

Dargan

Did you have to correct the vertical lines in the building in the first image in PS (ie; a use for vanishing point?)

Yes. I could not keep camera straight horizontaly, I had to lift it up to frame my subject what resulted in perspective distorsion. It was corrected in PS. Actually I start to think that I have visually overdone it. Or its just an illusion becasue of shadow? Upper floor looks wider, maybe.

Regards,

K.Polak

[Dargan]

Possibly Kr

You know I think you have to allow the brain to self correct so if you apply correction as if you were looking it the image straight on it may emerge as false to the viewer, who expects the image to have a certain distortion from the stereo image of your eyes. That has even confused me when I reread it, but I will leave the comment as I think there is an element of truth in that. Here is another stab at the point, if you got a ruler out and made the building sides completely parallel to the frame from a shot taken at ground level of a tall building you would get a sense of unreality from the image is another way of saying what I mean.

What do you think?

[wendellt]

I just noticed there is a matrix grid of the tiles at the top of the image.
This image works on so many levels. At the periphery of the pool edge where the people are is reminicent of a subtle horizontally biased mosaic.

The building looks like it has a sine wave distortion, the trees a waveform algorhtym distortion - well naturally. Isn't it wonderful how these synthetic effects are inherent in nature? To deconstruct further the image plane is reversed as a reflection, what a dimensional whack job, this image is worthy of a thesis by 'sheetshooter'.

woah it's a totally tripped out temporal time rift forming in hyperspace yaaaaaaaa.

[Dargan]

Wendell you need to take a dip in the pool

It was you that had just got the D2x at the AW, you were next to me for a while Saturday night? How is the learning curve?

I agree the pool shot is really good, but it probably needs to be 30 x 45 to get the full impact, perhaps we should turn it 'upside down' to extract more.

[Dargan]

No. Just turned it upside down and could this be a composite photo? With Kr putting in grid lines and a heat wave effect?

Damn interesting effect whatever the cause.

[wendellt]

Wendell you need to take a dip in the pool

It was you that had just got the D2x at the AW, you were next to me for a while Saturday night? How is the learning curve?

I agree the pool shot is really good, but it probably needs to be 30 x 45 to get the full impact, perhaps we should turn it 'upside down' to extract more.

Hi Dragan
The D2X learning curve is manageable if you just stick to a couple of settings like manual and matrix metering, when you get into shutter/aperture priority, custom white balance adjustment, custom shooting modes, exposure comp everything just gets hazy for me.
I read the chapter on optional speedlight usage with the D2X i fell right asleep, to much ittl, ttl, titi-l, tl-lt titlt, it and all of that.

[Dargan]

titi has a habit of doing that

[wendellt]

No. Just turned it upside down and could this be a composite photo? With Kr putting in grid lines and a heat wave effect?

Damn interesting effect whatever the cause.

I don't think it's a composite job, just a well spotted photographic opportunity!

[Sheetshooter]

Kristian,

Yet another fine example of getting out and SEEING. Seeing what is there AND seeing beyond what is there.

The Customs House shot seems a little out of scale to me. In order to balance witht he negative space of the pavement I think I want to see a wider view of the frontage. The shot is also a little distracting to my eye because it is about a half or quarter degree off level (down on the right just a smidgeon) and this sort of rendering is about precision - a level of precision normally beyond the eye and needs to be aided by .... you guessed it .... the ubiquitous spirit level. This is most definitely NOT a snapshot and so must contain none of the informality of a snap shot.

How did you make the sides parallel again? Stretch the top out in TRANSFORM or something similar? I find that there is a need to both stretch the top out and push the bottom IN to keep the height looking realistic (and attractive).

In the world of view cameras and perspective correct6ion the rule of thumb is that one only corrects to a point of about a 20º elevation - beyond that the parallel sides start to appear to actually DIVERGE - but I don't think you have reached that extent of correction here.


The War Memorial Shrine interior is wonderful and agin your sense of symmetry and design speaks volumes here. Might I suggest, however, that despite the capabilities of digital capture there are still times when a filter over the lens is a handy device. In this case a Neutral Density Graduated Filter. From a design point of view the present over exposue of the upper gallery would be acceptable if the source of the light were central and it looked like the illumination was coming directly down on the statue. But it is a side light and so the story is different. A 1-stop or 2-stop ND Grad judiciously placed level with the bottom of the curved mezzanine would help a lot I feel.


The Pool Of Remembrance shot is a real gem - I wish I had taken it! With or without the matrix effect of the tiles it is wonderful in its simplicity and subtlety.


The Radiating Canopy is of special interest to me because I am considering the acquisition of the 28mm f/2.8 lens (also looking to get the 20mm f/2. and this shot tells me in no uncertain terms that my choice is a good one.

Well seen (as I have come to expect from you) and almost well captured. You are just ever so slightly off axis and for my eye that disturbs the perfection of the symmetry. Placing the camera a couple of centimetres to the left would have fixed it I think. The clues to a point like this are the join in the masonry above the central glass wall support which JUST misses the apex of the triangle at the centre of the radiating hub of the arc. It is also seem in the central downlight being slightly more visible on one side of the winddow frame than the other.

Architects in the age of CAD are like all other designers and have a facile ability to line everything up. In archotectural photography we can use their obsession as an indicator of the ideal position.


All very pleasing stuf and please do not thnk I am nit-picking for the sake of it. I know that you have a real intensity about design, as i do, and see the photograph as a celebration of precision rather than just a record of existence.

[marcotrov]

Great perspectives Krystian. I also particularly like the qualities of the reflection. Strong compositions.
marco

[Sheetshooter]

Kristian,

On reading through my post I just thought that I should perhpas better explain why the adjustment of height is important in relation to the Customs House picture.

With an adjustable view camera where the film plane is made parallel to the vertical façade the height and width are in perfect proportion to their actual size relationship. If the lens is fixed and the camera is tilted up then the vertical dimension decreases. Think of looking along a straight road. From standing height above the road a mile is only a few centimetres long in the image. Stand on top of a building and look down upon the road and it appears longer. Get in an aeroplane and view the road perpendicularly and a mile is a mile. So it is with the bulding façade and so you need to put some of that height back in - particularly with buildings of the era of the Customs House when structures were still built very much in human scale.

Cheers,

[krpolak]

Dargan

Just turned it upside down and could this be a composite photo? With Kr putting in grid lines and a heat wave effect?

Hehe, actually that is interesting suggestion. I should think about that in the future. However this photo is not a photomontage. As Wendellt noticed the image is rotated 180 degrees. So sky becomes the closer part of the pool. 20mm is pretty wide, so wide that polarizing effect in one corner will be diffrent from other corner. This allows me to cut reflection in close plane when still keep them in far plan. Reversing image is just a play with viewer imagination

Regarding to Cumstom House shot I did some correction, following Sheetshooter advice. Small changes, but seems work better now.




Sheetshooter

Hitting first to the Customs House. You are right, some levels where slightly off. Also I tried to restore original propotion by extending image about 5-7% verticaly. Difficult to say for me it now is more correct, but looks better. Possibly to verify I should go there with print and see

I chopped of sides of the building because there were nasty light poles with 'fantastic' colourfull banners. Removing them in Photoshop would be quite a bit work, so I save my time.

Regarding to the War Memorial Shrine I am not sure about darkening it with graduated filter. I still could do it in Photoshop. It is not blown out. I tried, but it seems to me that image looses its openess, feeling which you would have having vertical illumination, as you mentioned. Having upper level darker would reveal more distracting detail whereas now it plays role of heaven or glory for dead soldier, even if there is lack for vertical rays hitting down.

The Radiating Canopy ...You are just ever so slightly off axis and for my eye that disturbs the perfection of the symmetry. Placing the camera a couple of centimetres to the left would have fixed it I thin. It is also seem in the central downlight being slightly more visible on one side of the winddow frame than the other

Well spotted, you have a good eye I must start to look more carefully into viewfinder. That kind of images, with complex geometry should be carefully examined before shot. Practise and experience, experience and practise. And thinking

All very pleasing stuf and please do not thnk I am nit-picking for the sake of it. I know that you have a real intensity about design, as i do, and see the photograph as a celebration of precision rather than just a record of existence.

I really appreciate your feedback and will to spend a lot of time to write so extensive commnets. It definitelly helps me to improve my shots and technique. Thanks.


Thanks to other guys for comments!

Regards,

K.Polak


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[Sheetshooter]

Kristian,

I guess the easy way to check the correct proportions of the Customs House frontage would be to make a perfect circle on the computer and place it over the clock face - mind you the clock would only be very slightly elyptical in a shot like that and getting it to be perfectly round could be a chore.

[krpolak]

Sheetshooter

I guess the easy way to check the correct proportions of the Customs House frontage would be to make a perfect circle on the computer and place it over the clock face

Haha, where is my brain?

I have checked. It is perfectly round. So my feeling about building proportion is correct. At least my eyes work

Regards,

K.Polak PS: Updated the second image, previously was first version

[krpolak]

wendellt

I don't think it's a composite job, just a well spotted photographic opportunity!

It remindes me quote below:

"The photos in this book were not hard to make. They required a certain seeing, but few special techniques, and no tricks. Something though was hard. It was hard being between photographs and not knowing when or how another image would reveal itself". -William Albert Allard

Regards,

K.Polak

[Dargan]

Very informative thread now that I come back to it. Lots of encouragement for more interesting images Kr

[krpolak]

Dargan

Very informative thread now that I come back to it. Lots of encouragement for more interesting images Kr

I apreciate that kind of threads the most. I am always keen to get constructive critique, even if this mean temporary lack of lifting ego 'ahs'



 PS Forgot to say, these are not 20mm

[Dargan]

Now that would be Sydney pollution at the top and heavens knows what at the bottom. A time exposure from a car window at night going past a green car (although the green looks vegetative) with the red streak the brake lights

In both images though the colour mix is very appealing.

[krpolak]

You are right with bottom. Taken from a car, at night when driving over the Bridge. I like in this image its calmness. Horizontal lines, basicly not sharp egdes, monochrmatic colour, even if vivid. Everything flows in own direction.

Regarding the first one, that was the sunset! Here is panorama taken few minutes later. I should finally finished all my sunsets and sky photos. I am lucky to work high enough to have clear view far away and sometimes sky is just amazing (this one is not from my workplace)



Regards,

K.Polak

[Dargan]

Kr; One thing that comes through strongly in your images from my view is your attention to colour and the abstract in your images. I love that panorama of the sunset. It reminds me of virtual canvases of colour in the sky at sunset from the hills in Wagga looking west while I was there. The vastness of the sky is something many people miss in highly populated cities unless you can get above it all.

Here is an image I like, but I guess I am biased. What gets me is she was only 7 when she drew this. It has colour and an abstract nature. What do you think?

EDIT I will make the image larger, still getting the procedure sorted out

[flipfrog]

the third pic (water blur) is amazing...


i love the airplane one and the motion blur just added too...great stuff..

*impressed

[krpolak]

Thanks flipfrog for your comment. I really appreciate that

Dargan, wow! I recon if replaceing marker with oild would be possible this drawing ends up in a gallery I see artists trying more or less mimic child style, but there is something that they cannot achieve and what is introduced here. What are these two vertical dividers, have she ever explained?

Regards,

K.Polak

[Dargan]

Can you believe it? She did a triptych naturally. I recall reading somewhere that Picasso said his main intention was to be able to paint like a child. It is interesting to see what she will come up with next, we don't push her in any way, but let her draw the world as she sees it.

A bit like our attempts to define our worldview through photography?

Although unrelated Kr I came across a technical bookstore called McGills today in downtown Brisbane and saw a book Adobe Photoshop CS2 for Photographers, its price was a bit steep at $77 but I was impressed with its content. Have you seen the publication or found any books that have helped you to develop your skills and vision of the world? Any others in this thread please responsd as well.

[krpolak]

Dargan

we don't push her in any way, but let her draw the world as she sees it

You are right. Don't pushed her. Lets her find the way. However, just keep your eye to make sure she has all she needs to keep going. Encouraging is good way to go.

A bit like our attempts to define our worldview through photography?

Kind of. And these is why I always appreciate constructive feedback. This gives next loop of development. And each loop usually brings you closer to understanding what is all this suff really about

Have you seen the publication or found any books that have helped you to develop your skills and vision of the world?

I really dont use too much books since 80% percent of their content is pretty much the same. I recon, if you find this book useful, buy it and use it. I can bet, one you will master all described techniques you will not find others very impresive.

I read quite a lot of tutorials over internet and try not only learn it, but also understand the flow. If you can see idea sitting behind particular technique and you know your needs then you can modify it and use it in new fashion. Finally Photoshop and others are really only tools.

Also I think it is worth so go over photography. Explore other art areas ie clasical drawing, painting, design. Or read sites/books like that:

http://www.photoquotes.com

I recon this is were real knowledge and way to be a better photographer lays. However you still need perfect knowledge of you tools. First you must became a skillfull craftman before you can became an artist

Regards,

K.Polak

[Dargan]

Beautifully put Krystian. We are all journeyman apprentices.